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> Permanent Lifestyles, How safe is *your* nestegg?
LinaInverse
post Jan 26 2005, 08:37 PM
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Canon rules say that one can buy a perm lifestyle for 100xmonthly cost. For Lows and Squatters, this is typically used as boltholes, coverIDs, etc. For Highs and Lux, this might be something set aside for once a shadowrun char chooses to retire.

Is there a canon description how "safe" is this investment? For example, a character may have to abandon a lifestyle if things get too hot. Does he apply the perm investment to another lifestyle or is that money lost forever? If the latter, then why would anyone buy a perm lifestyle, given that even a perm Squatter is half-a-mill?

On a related topic, Luxury is described as 10,000 "and up". Does it matter if someone has 10K/month vs "more"? Example: does the corp exec spending 25K/month live more luxuriously than the guy living on 10K/month? How would this translate in a role-playing instance?

EDIT: My bad; Lux is 100,000/month. High is 10,000/month.
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Mumbles
post Jan 26 2005, 08:44 PM
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I'd say its gone forever, unless that permanent lifestyle is under a differnet identiity. If you do go the permanent route, make sure you set up a seperate ID to cover it. You shouldn;t be buying permanent lifestyles that can be traced to you as a runnert.

A permanent low lifestyle is only 100k. I once had a character by a small cabin out in the boondocks, registered in an alternate identity. He used it as a place to get away after runs.

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The White Dwarf
post Jan 26 2005, 08:45 PM
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Its as safe as a normal living quarters (aka, always a chance of theft or fire or something but its fairly remote). If the runners do things like drag a hostage back to their luxary apartment, its less safe... Smart play about who/what is tied to the lifestlye is how to maintain these safely. I know my runners typically keep a safehouse or two, totally paid for if possible, as its harder to trace them to me when theres no new papertrail being generated. How gone it is depends on the situation, if you got a paid-for high lifestyle on an alternate identity and its insured, and some gangers burn it down, the investment might not be lost. But if its some squat you own and it goes up in a run, the cash is gone. Use logic. Re: Luxury, yes, more = better; translating as they get a custom jet instead of a normal jet, or a custom designer clothes instead of just designer clothers, etc.
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RangerJoe
post Jan 26 2005, 09:58 PM
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I don't equate "permanent lifestyle" with "permanent address." if a player shells out the cool cash for a permanent lifestyle, I am going to cut him some slack about the security of the lifestyle, unless he does something mighty foolish with it ("Yes, officer, I know there was a meth lab in the apartment...which exploded...burning down the building....in downtown Seattle...")

Ways to "transfer" permanent lifestyles in game could include:

* Being a member in a timeshare-like service,

* Being a member in a housing "ride share" program-- wherever you go, Housing Inc. will make sure you have a place to stay that meets the degree of luxury your membership entitles you to,

* Having a friendly real estate agent who you have incriminating photos of

I don't see runners as the sedentary "house, wife, two point five kids, and the dog" types, living in suburbia. A permanent lifestyle represents the manner a character has become accustomed living in. In the words of Johnny Mnemonic- "I WANT ROOMSERVICE!!!!"
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Kagetenshi
post Jan 26 2005, 10:18 PM
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I think the major argument against a Permanent lifestyle would be that eight years, four months is over double the typical Runner lifespan.

~J
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GrinderTheTroll
post Jan 26 2005, 10:20 PM
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I would say it could be targeted but probably only by powerful enough enemies (R5 or R6) in the interest of them wanting and knowing how to make you suffer.

On the other hand, you could have you "investments" secure enough that maybe your residence could be targeted or other more material assets.

GM's call IMO.
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hyzmarca
post Jan 26 2005, 10:39 PM
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The way I see it, permenant lifestyle isn't realestate it is investments. You can have a permenant luxury lifestyle and not even own the clothes on your back. You could just rent everything. The difference between permenant and monthly is that permenant means that you have money rolling in to cover everything you need in day to day life. You never have to worry about buying food, but this isn't because you bought a lifetime supply of food one day. It is simply that you've set yourself up so that you will always have the income required to maintain your lifestyle.

How this is done really determines how secure the lifestyle is. You could have dozens of bank accounts under dozens of IDs that you simply collect interest from; the interest automaticly goes into your daily account. When you have to change IDs the daily account would be gone but the investment would still be in the other accounts. It would be a simple matter to have it funneled into a new daily account.
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Foreigner
post Jan 26 2005, 10:41 PM
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OUCH!

If my calculations are correct, based upon what LinaInverse said, that means that a Permanent Luxury Lifestyle equates to 100 X :nuyen: 10,000 per month, or :nuyen:1,000,000 per month.

In other words, :nuyen: 12,000,000 per year (or $48,000,000 U.C.A.S., or $36,000,000 C.A.S., or f24,000,000 (Quebec francs)).

Talk about rolling in dough....

:eek:

--Foreigner
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hyzmarca
post Jan 26 2005, 10:44 PM
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No, you pay for 100 months in one chunk and you don't have to worry about 101.

Perment luxury lifestyle is only 1,000,000.
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Kanada Ten
post Jan 26 2005, 10:44 PM
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Er, you pay the 100 time Lifestyle to make it permanent once and only once, not yearly or anything.
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Foreigner
post Jan 26 2005, 10:49 PM
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Oops. :(

My bad.

I told you people that I was a SHADOWRUN noob.

Thanks for setting me straight on that issue.

Just to make sure I have it right, a permanent Luxury lifestyle would be "fixed" at that level through a lump-sum payment of :nuyen: 1,000,000.

Am I correct?

--Foreigner
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Tarantula
post Jan 26 2005, 10:53 PM
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Foreigner, thats what permanent means... Always, doesn't go away. You pay the one time, and never pay anything else, and have that lifestyle without ever putting another nuyen toward it.
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GrinderTheTroll
post Jan 26 2005, 11:02 PM
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I hate to sound crass, but RTFM, it's all in there.
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Cynic project
post Jan 26 2005, 11:04 PM
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That price is for high life style. Luxery costs, 100,000 :nuyen: a month or 10,000,000 :nuyen: for life.

And yes, that is a whole lot of money.That is the kind of money you look at and say,I ain't gona run no more, no more.
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Foreigner
post Jan 27 2005, 12:02 AM
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Tarantula:

That's what I thought. I just wanted to be certain that I had it right. :)

GrinderTheTroll:

I have read the fragging manual.

I was just asking for clarification, as I'm not a GM.

Sorry if I upset you. :(

Cynic project:

Thanks. I thought my calculations were off. I should have used a calculator instead of trying to puzzle it out with my sorry excuse for a brain. :P

--Foreigner
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hahnsoo
post Jan 27 2005, 03:37 AM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
I think the major argument against a Permanent lifestyle would be that eight years, four months is over double the typical Runner lifespan.

Which is exactly why no one in our group gets any permanent lifestyles. Boltholes can be compromised, apartments can be trashed. Usually, the players buy two lifestyles, which they keep up every month, a Squatter bolthole and where ever they usually live. Buying a permanent lifestyle is a waste of money, and all of it is up front. :-P

We used to joke about creating characters who start with the million, buy a permanent Luxury or High lifestyle, then immediately retire. *grin*
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Sandoval Smith
post Jan 27 2005, 03:41 AM
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I had always equated it as permanent lifestyle = runner retiring. They'd reached the point where they looked back on the lists of the dead stretching behind them, and said, 'okay, I've had enough.' And if they have a million in bank, then they can live the rest of their days more or less at ease. Otherwise, especially for the higher lifestyles, why make the equivalent of eight years worth of payments at once? There are a lot better ways for the runner to spend that money if they're staying in the biz.
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FrostyNSO
post Jan 27 2005, 06:15 AM
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In our game, one of the character's only goals is to afford a Middle Lifestyle for retirement (permanent).
Everyday, he balances how much cash goes in compared to cash going out. Staying on the right side of the law, but breaking it at the same time. Keeping in good with your friends and keeping your enemies just far away enough that they can't hurt you....
Trying to save up for that permanent lifestyle is an adventure in itself.

This is what SR is all about =)
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DocMortand
post Jan 27 2005, 07:33 AM
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heh.

The crass joke behind the scenes is Lina's char got a chunk of money and decided to buy a small chunk of real estate out in the boonies - a farm as it were.

Yes, Lina bought the farm.

Amongst all the groans and things being thrown, the funny thing is she's planning on turning it into a David Koresh style hideaway with remote turrets, Bouncing Betty minefields and escape tunnels so that the Mob (a Level 4 Enemy I believe) believes she is dead.

Definately creative, and I'm looking forward to designing the Mob cleanup "crew" that tries to root her out. Operative word on "tries".
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LinaInverse
post Jan 27 2005, 03:17 PM
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QUOTE (DocMortand)
heh.

The crass joke behind the scenes is Lina's char got a chunk of money and decided to buy a small chunk of real estate out in the boonies - a farm as it were.

Yes, Lina bought the farm.

Amongst all the groans and things being thrown, the funny thing is she's planning on turning it into a David Koresh style hideaway with remote turrets, Bouncing Betty minefields and escape tunnels so that the Mob (a Level 4 Enemy I believe) believes she is dead.

Definately creative, and I'm looking forward to designing the Mob cleanup "crew" that tries to root her out. Operative word on "tries".

Basically true. The idea was to first fake my death (with the help of some mondo Deckers which may be coming in the future) then hide for a while to throw the mafia (yes, a lvl 4 enemy) off the trail. Give my char some time to grow decently strong and able to defend herself better. I have no illusions that this will work indefinitely, but I'm hoping for some time to build up my power.

The farm is for that eventual (hopefully far off) time when the mafia finally finds out the truth (prob when word of a future shadowrun leaks out) and sends out a hit team. I explain to Doc that I had this cinematic moment in my mind of a group of vans pulling up, having a commando team sneaking in at night (cutting barbed wire, making those hand-motions to each other, etc) then one guy steps forward deep in, and a soft "click" is heard. The first mine pops up in slow-motion and you see this guy's mouth open wide, as his teammates dive for the ground, etc...
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Weredigo
post Feb 12 2005, 12:21 PM
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QUOTE
Is there a canon description how "safe" is this investment?

To my knowledge there isn't, however "safety" in the senses of Location, Security Ratings, and Quality of nieghbors shouldn't be a problem if the character goes through their Fixer. When the characters in My game want a place to call thier own I usually ask for a steep price up front, and then some percentage off the top of whatever nuyen they make from that point on, depending on elaboracy, though I usually don't go any higher then 1/3. Once the up front price is paid they get the pad, thier choice of furniture, and the place next door, great for those times when somebody lets slip your address to someone who shouldn't know.

QUOTE
I think the major argument against a Permanent lifestyle would be that eight years, four months is over double the typical Runner lifespan.


Yup, reason for the steep up front, and relatively cheap "monthly" rent, Real estate agents and Landlords/ladies, make a good chunk of thier money off the new people moving in.

QUOTE
The farm is for that eventual (hopefully far off) time when the mafia finally finds out the truth (prob when word of a future shadowrun leaks out) and sends out a hit team. I explain to Doc that I had this cinematic moment in my mind of a group of vans pulling up, having a commando team sneaking in at night (cutting barbed wire, making those hand-motions to each other, etc) then one guy steps forward deep in, and a soft "click" is heard. The first mine pops up in slow-motion and you see this guy's mouth open wide, as his teammates dive for the ground, etc...
:D Sweet

Personally, while playing a character, when it comes to permanent Residence. I prefer either to rent a room above a bar on a permanent basis, (why go through the trouble of driving all the way to the other side of town to look for work) or shack up in the back of a Bulldog Stepvan, harder to hit a moving target especially when it keeps changing colors, i.e. for some odd reason one van kept getting "tagged" by the street gang of the area who's turf I parked in for the night.

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Edward
post Feb 12 2005, 03:23 PM
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I believe it is a mater of investments and such. There are several things that can go wrong.

The corp that is hunting you finds out about it. It is now useless to you, you can raid the investment accounts and arrange an gent to sell the property but you wont get what you payed for it (there are rules in one of the books for selling a lifestyle) and salvaging the investment may leave a paper trail back to another identity and lifestyle.

If the building is destroyed but other concerns are not a problem you probably still have the land (if you owned it legal, unlikely) your investments to pay for food, security payments and utilities are still intact. These can probably be salvaged for an appropriate portion of the initial cost.

If a Decker raids your accounts then he could conceivably steal all your savings transfer property out of your name, falsify security payment records putting you 3 months in arrears (or pay the criminals your own money to cancel your protection contract). In this case you will be lucky to be able to take your clothing with you.

A permanent lifestyle means a permanent address, unless you sell it and by another (a proses that incurs costs). There may be exceptions (an investment portfolio that generates enough income that you can spend every day in a different 5 star hotel) but almost always one address.

The GM decides when such things happen. I believe SSG had rules witch cover selling a lifestyle and partial lifestyles that will work well for guidelines but much GM discretion will be needed.

Edward
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akarenti
post Feb 12 2005, 08:43 PM
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I like the whole Perminent Lifestyle=Retirement idea.

In my game, I usually encourage players not to pay up lifestyles more than a few months ahead, so I can call in SWAT teams or whatever without them loosing too much money (esp. considering they'll at least loose all the equipment they can't carry).
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Catsnightmare
post Feb 12 2005, 09:27 PM
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I still want to try this idea someone else came up with, buying a permanent squatter lifestyle in the form of an annonimous VIP pass, gained either by stock ownership or in alternate form of payment, to a coffin motel chain.
Whenever your char needs a place to sleep he just slots his VIP pass and gets a free coffin-bed, vending machine meal, and free access to wash facilities per day.
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Critias
post Feb 12 2005, 11:15 PM
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Coffin slots are actually a little above Squatter, IIRC. Check...uhh...Sprawl Survival Guide, I think? I'm pretty sure that's the one with all the detailed categories (location, security, entertainment, comfort, whatever else) and how they breakdown.

My main character has a pair of coffin motel spots, both paid up a few months in advance and checked on once a week or so, on different sides of Seattle (both far from his several-month-prepaid, shared, High lifestyle, and seperate from his similarly prepaid Low bolthole). Both have a duffel with a few guns in 'em, an extensive first aid kit, a couple thousand in certified credsticks, a few changes of clothes, and -- depending on which popular traveler spot the specific coffin's across the street from -- either a bus ticket or plane ticket out of town. He's not paranoid, because he knows they are out to get him. The Low lifestyle, for what it's worth, is across a parking lot from one of the hospitals (right from a Seattle Sourcebook) on the border of the Redmond Barrens (if you need to run to cover for serious medical help, I figure an ER anywhere near the Barrens is pretty much gauranteed to be extra-qualified to handle gunshot traumas).

I figure the management at a coffin motel doesn't really care if a person is in the coffin or not, so long as a credstick is slotted and the space is paid for. And things like coffin motels should be as popular near bus stations and such as seedy hotels or second-rate hostels are, nowadays.
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