Making a Lightsabber in SR Options

[Shaudes29]

I have been throwing around a number of ideas on how a light-saber would be made in shadowrun. I bring this up because there is no real reason why a magically active individual would not be inspired by star wars and have there expression of magic be the "way of the force".

#1
Mono-filament whip with a manipulation spell that causes the whip to stiffen and be treated as fencing file.

#2
melee-weapon with elemental aura spell on it.

#3
Spell Force Blade.
creates a sustained blade of force, with an elemental quality to it.

#4
SOTA melee-weapon
creates a field of plasma contained in a magnetic field. Probably use rules similar to mono-whip.
if you mess up the magnetic field is disrupted and you get a face full of plasma.

basic construction would be a haft that a rod telescopes out of. the rod helps defines the magnetic containment field. then the plasma fills the magnetic chamber. Would look nearly identical to the movies and the color would change depending on what the main gas is that is used, or maybe what the local airs contaminants are.

any suggestions on how each of these would work, and what you think would be the best option would be appreciated.

[Pthgar]

If you absolutely must...

I would avoid using magic as a power source by personal prefference.

A mono-wire held in a magnetic containment field reaching to the end cap. Use a laser shot up the length of the wire (parallel) and refracted back down by a prism in the end cap,use rules similiar to the Laser Crescent Axe. The Saber would draw power from a hip battery, MP Laser III style. This sword could not thrust or parry (it might be able to cut the attacking weapon apart though) and it's battery drain would be considerable.

This is similiar to Larry Niven's "variable knife" from the "Known Space" series.

[Austere Emancipa...]

A stiff monowire should only be considered an option if all else fails. It would be insanely fragile, and could certainly not be used to effectively fight against anyone employing a metallic melee weapon. Any bladed, metallic weapon coming into contact with it at speed would cut straight through it. Remember: it's a carbon wire/braid thats far less thick than a human hair. If you extend it stout, you can snap it with very little force.

I'd go with either #2 or #3. Magic is handy in explaining all the screwy stuff.

This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Feb 1 2005, 07:27 PM

[Pthgar]

Well it might be a matter of interpretation on whether or not it would snap. It depends on how it was held rigid and what the tensile strength of monowire is.
Also, my method probably would work better if the monowire was spun kind of like a chainsaw.

Another thing, I always forget that monowire isn't "true" SF monowire, that is, an insanely strong, one molocule substance that is one molocule thick and therefore can slice through anything. SR monowire is far more limited.

OK, I take it back. use frelling magic. :)

[GrinderTheTroll]

Magnetical held, self contained plasma? Bah, don't try and get too bogged down with the "reality" of a light-saber, it's not going to be able to exist by any real methods, so I'd favor the magical route or just say "no".

[DrJest]

Nnngh.


I just had a disturbing vision. Given the... flexible nature of magic in SR (I believe Awakenings made mention of the guy whose magical tradition was based on old superhero comics) I can suddenly see a physmage with a Jedi shtick. A little boost attribute, a little missile parry, and spells like telekinesis, catfall - and a bizarre custom spell that generates an energy blade out of some hinky hash-up of old electronics he calls a lightsaber (Talisman geas for that one, anyone?)

Of course, he just believes that he's tapping into the Force and that "only a Jedi can wield a lightsaber".

Although I can also see any number of fanboy mages coming up with a spell to make a lightsaber. In fact, I could probably even use the spell design process to do it, but even without it, I can see... oh, an Elemental Manipulation spell creating an energy blade of (Successesx2)S damage rating. Drain wouldn't be too bad; I don't have the book tohand, but I think it starts at a base of the damage code, gets a stage down or something for being touch only, some drain target increase for being physical. From a 2nd Ed viewpoint (I'm reading, I'm reading! Give me time!), anchor that sucker to a "hilt" with time and activation links, bingo, lightsaber - and under 2nd Ed rules you could give it to your covert ops physad, too.

[Austere Emancipa...]

Well, I mean, sure, you can (and in many situations are forced to) forgo RL facts about the physical world when playing SR. Monowire is one where a minimal amount of use in a game doesn't wreck believability, but when it starts to come up regularly there's a chance of Overexposure to Stupid.

If you accept that monowire is constructed of buckmeisterfullerene tubes, then you're pretty much stuck with the fact that a monowhip is not a very good weapon. For example, a 0.65kg weight on the end of a monowire 1/10th the thickness of a human hair would be enough to snap it.

[Crimson Jack]

...groan...

Go with magic if it must be done. That fits more in line with the Force.

[Pthgar]

How about some kind of buckytube-plus. Like, put some really high strength molocule inside the buckytube. I know that argon has been trapped in a buckyball.

[GrinderTheTroll]

Just make it up!

Whatever techincal explaination you try and create it's doesn't really matter, and be fluff only. If you want it to work in your SR world, then it will, the "precise" techincal mumbo-jumbo can be whatever you want.

[lodestar]

I always liked how the laser rapier was presented in System Shock 2 - essentially a lightsabre rip-off, but the idea behind the technology was interesting. What you have is an extendable porous polymer baton. When extended it activates a high powered laser which is reflected back by a mirror in the tip. When you strike something with it it will flex of course and the laser's energy will be concentrated at the point of the baton's flex which will be where it contacts its target essentially burning through wherever it his. Naturally you cannot stab or thrust with the weapon, but it makes a nasty slashing implement.

If I had the game handy I could give you the actual description.

[Foreigner]

Shaudes29:

I found a reference on the 'net for creating Jedi characters in SR.

Here it is:

Neoanarchists' Guide to Wisconsin

Unfortunately, the one site in which I recall reading about anything similar to a Light Saber in SHADOWRUN, Branson Hagerty's "Blackjack's Shadowrun Page", appears to be down.

His version was some sort of laser sword--a laser generator in the handle projected a laser beam onto a reflector at the end of a long probe (i.e., similar to the way the blade is held in a conventional hacksaw).

Unfortunately, the laser sword was strictly a slicing/slashing weapon, as the laser beam did not have a point--only an edge.

hahnsoo:

My brother once told me that he played a Jedi once in a non-technological RPG. The referee modified the rules a bit so that the light saber was, in essence, a power focus, similar to the "Power Rings" used by the Green Lantern Corps in DC Comics. Essentially, the weapon would do whatever the PC wanted it to do.

Apparently, his group's referee was of a similar line of thought to your GM.

There's also a MARVEL COMICS character along similar lines: Kenuichio Harada, a/k/a "Silver Samurai". He's a mutant with the ability to generate what the comics describe as "... an unknown form of energy, probably a tachyon field, with which he surrounds his sword. He can use the sword, so energized, to slice through any known substance except Adamantium....The effect is like that of a disintegration beam."

He normally uses a Japanese katana as a focus for his ability.

--Foreigner

[Shaudes29]

[hahnsoo]

In one of my past games, we had a cult initiatory group that believed in "the Force" and used weapon foci resembling lightsabers (enhanced by a unique spell-locked manipulation spell). The PCs killed them all out of spite. *grin*

[Cray74]

[Cochise]

Here's what I came up with, after reading various ideas of how to create a "lightsaber" in SR:

First some "random" thoughts on the lightsaber itself:

1. In Star Wars normally every Jedi had to build his own Lightsaber. Luke initially being the exception when being provided his father's lightsaber by Obi-Wan. Later on he build his own and had to use the Force for doing so => Unlike Pthgar I'm pretty much for a magically created item in the SR context, since a Jedi-inspired magician is likely to view his magic as "the Force" as well.

2. The process of building a lightsaber in Star Wars is AFAIK rather difficult and since SR currently isn't on a magical high (it's only on the way to that high), it's no problem if the SR equivalent of a lightsaber is even more difficult to create than for a Jedi within the Star Wars universe

3. Lightsabers do have some special proberties that commonly defy our understandig of light: Light can be crossed without problems. Star Wars Lightsabers collide like real weapons and make those nifty sounds when it happens. Lightsaber can also be used to reflect laser beams from blasters and so forth. Light normally doesn't do that either. Lightsabers do have a precisely fixed length , while there's no known possibility to do that with actual light => These traits should be there on a SR lightsaber as well.

Now some thoughts on known SR mechanics:

1. "Light" as a magical effect usually involves either illusion or manipulation spells. Since a lightsaber should interact with the real world, the magic involved should be some sort of manipulation spell

2. The first spells that spring to mind are elemental manipulations like Laser and Nova that make use of the secondary elemental effect "Light". But these spells are instantanious. Not the best choice for a lightsaber. How about making them sustained? Not too good either. But wait there are spells like Flameaura that also have elemental effects and cause damage eitehr by increasing the power of an attack or using a damage code of Force M against halved impact armor (without further protection against the specific elemental damage type). So why not use a similarly sustained light spell that causes Force M damage against halved impact armor?

3. But how to restrict such a spell in length? Either by spell definition the spell already is restricted in length or something else has to do it. But what? How about an restricted version of the barrier spell that only blocks / reflects light? That would solve the problems with reproducing the other lightsaber traits: If two lightsaber users engage in combat their sabers will collide, while anything else will pass through the barrier and then come into connection with the destructive force of the saber itself and of course such a saber could theoretically reflect a laser of that rare Ares Redline the user happens to run into. There are some problems however: The light spell would work against the limited barrier, possibly bringing it down over time ... But the barrier rules say that attacks with apower lower than half the modified barrier rating do not cause any harm => If the barrier has a force where force of barrier / 2 > force of light spell, it'll work out fine *for now*

4. The Barrier now poses a new problem: Barrier is an area effect variant of spells, so reducing it's size is largely dependant on the sorcer being able to withhold enough dice from the sorcery test and still score at least one success. Also a barrier with meassurement of e.g. 1m "hight" and 3cm diameter is not exactly what the rules normally allow, but then again: If a character with a magic rating of 6 (for a starter character is able to withhold 12 dice to reduce the area of effect by 6m, I'm more than willing to allow him to shape a barrier of that type ...

5. What about the handle? Solution 1: a unique enchantment. Solution 2: a stacked anchoring focus (including a GM who is willing to accept the interpretation I made here *I'm sure that I did it somewhere else in more detail and slightly corrected, but I can't seem to find it now). Personally I prefer the stacked anchring solution but due to the problems *further down* I'd also settle for a unique entchantment with a fixed karmic cost determined by the GM ...

So where's the catch I'm talking about?
The involved spell forces ... mainly that of the limited barrier ...
In order so have a lightsaber with a significant damage potential like cutting through hard materials with a normal barrier rating of 12 (against elemental effects IIRC the modified barrier rating equals the normal barrier rating) you'd need a force 7 light spell .. Consequently the limited light barrier would need a force 16 in order to have a halved modified barrier rating above 7 (in this case 8). While casting a force 16 barrier might simply be a hard task for a magician in terms of Drain, the real problem is: How will you ever learn that spell?
The next problem would be: The insane karmic cost of a stacked anchoring focus for a force 7 light spell and force 16 limited barrier ...

What would you get, if you were to bypass those problems?
You'd have a weapon with reach 1, 7M damage against halved impact armor (rather reasonable within the SR-context) that can cut through rather hard materials, interacts with another lightsaber or lower powered lasers just like the movie version (just without sound). Highpower lasers would blast through the limited barrier just as they would in Star Wars. In conjunction with the (debatable) possibility of switching anchoring foci on and off without constant drain or need for recasting spells.
When going for a unique entchantment, the issues with anchoring foci is gone, but the problem with required spell forces remains ...

Feel free to play around with that idea as you please ...

[The Grifter]

Hmm.....building a lightsaber in SR? The only thing I see building here is a lawsuit case from George Lucas. LOL

[Req]

[Vharn]

I got a little Chaosmage that got his fingers onto a lightsabre himself...

I had some thoughts of building one for a long time, so i asked the GM how it worked...after all, it turned out to be some kind of elemental trapped inside, technomagicks at it's best. not the worst explanation after all. and got some specops trying to get it back on my back *g* geez, they were fun after all.

but i kinda like Cochise' thoughts on that topic...though he dig up some rather difficult questions...

[Teulisch]

Hmm. Well... why not summon a spirit, and have it create the lightsabre effect as its manifestation? This bypasses a large number of various problems, while specificly limiting how many you could get.

Lets say this spirit is a result of magical research, and its rather limited abilities were made usefull by attaching it to a (weapon?)focus. This would let anyone weild it, once the mage has set it up, but only a mage would be able to use it properly.

as for what kind of spirit... we could go with some kind of plasma or energy elemental, or a spirit of 'staw wars', or something else entirely. It could very well be summoned from a metaplane (meaning only an initiate could summon one)

[Tanka]

On "fixed wavelenghts" or whatever:

A somewhat unknown feat Vader pulled when destroying virtually every Jedi: the knobs on his 'saber were for controlling length and consistency of the blade. As such, he would lower the consistency, allowing the two blades to pass through each other. Immediately afterwards he would up the consistency to kill the Jedi.

Dirty, but it worked.</semistarwarsgeek>

[Gem the Troll]

Variable lengths and consistancy are controlled through crystal alignment within the handle of the lightsaber. The knobs were being used to readjust the placement of the crystals.

I love Star Wars, but I don't think that lightsabers are a good idea. Either they're going to be so rare as to disrupt game balance, or so toned down as to cheapen them. Remember lightsabers are normally powered by those power packs they use for blasters in Star Wars...different tech levels...

As for building a lightsaber in SR...I definately think it should be restricted to initiated (they can call themselves Jedi if they want, hell there's a bunch of Auzzies doing it). The main problem with building it from a tech standpoint, no magic is that the powerpack would have to be man portable (ie hippack, backpack etc) so I suggest using magic, otherwise you've got a cord attatched to your weapon...easily disabled in melee combat. The blade length and intensity are easy...you just say that the damned crystals are harmonized in just such a way, and that's why it's focused to the point of cohenrency. Maybe the required crystals are absurdly rare (thus ludicrously expensive and well guarded). Perhaps the crystals themselves are byproducts (or remains from a specific elemental). Like it was said before, most of the explanation is fluff...

Your call though, but I would just say no.

[hyzmarca]

Go the Plasma state hydrogen held in an electromagnetic field route. Use an elemental manipulation spell to prevent the waste heat from cremating the user (even when the blade is turned off).

[Dancer]

Why not take Killing Hands with a Talisman geas? Maybe pay an extra Power Point or two to give it some reach.

[bitrunner]

another way to do this as a mage would be to make the LS from an ally spirit - use the physical form (materialization) feature to have it take the form/function of a LS (and you get the first form free) - if Talon can have his become a motorcycle, then a LS should be possible too....and you can take it with you when astral!

with three-dim movement, you can have your LS "jump" into your hand when you hold it out (simple action to command), instead of wasting a levitation or similar spell (a complex action)...

as for combat, i'd be torn between giving it the Sorcery skill, and then it gets one spell for free (that is supposed to be random, but i'd let someone specify the spell since it is for an express purpose and limited) and make it probably "Laser", modified for range of "Touch" so that when the LS "hits", it casts the Laser spell; OR just have it do damage based on its Force or Body/Strength attributes.

the LS would have immunity to normal weapons, so hitting it with another sword and doing damage would be very difficult...

of course, it could be banished and/or attacked with spells, etc...and it would cost a LOT of Karma...oh, and you could use it for the "Familiar" ordeal...