The Death of Big D, Who is Lithe? Options

[Gyro the Greek S...]

Awright, how about this:

1.) Nobody has to use rules/metaplot they don't want to.

2.) People who don't have to use rules/metaplots they don't want to don't need to imply or outright state that the material other people use and like is substandard. Saying somebody is doing it all wrong and then saying they can't tell you what to do when they object isn't a very good way of defending your own position.

So now onto more important things, like who would win in a mud-wrestling contest: Dunkelzehn or Ibn Eisa?

My money's on the mud.

[Peter Pan]

[Frag-o Delux]

I believe Ibn Eisa is the leader of the New Jihad. Check Dot6W I believe he is in the Aden section.

[Peter Pan]

ummm.... don't have Dot6W... so I don't even know what the New Jihad is (the old one seemed to be working fine...)

[last_of_the_grea...]

Ibn Eisa's mentioned prominently in Year of the Comet, I believe. Basically, he was a moderate Islamic leader who was assasinated, rose from the dead and pronounced an Islamic Jihad! Now everyone wants to know why he's not dead.

[Frag-o Delux]

And Year of the Comet is the first mentioning of Shedim, which inhabit the bodies of the dead.

[Drain Brain]

Ah, the voice of sanity...

Oops, no. Just me.

Okay, I'll try mummy...

hmm.


I (coincidentally) just finished re-reading the Dragon Heart Saga. In answer to our thread-starter's questions:

Lethe = Dunkelzahn, yes.

As for current whereabouts? Well here is the supposition.

With the death of the being Thayla, Lethe,took up the dragon heart, using its power (the mana channeled into it by Dunkelzahn's ritual - you know, the one that coincided with his explosive suicide?) to level out the mana spikes on "our" side of the chasm. With the task completed, I would assume that the Billy/Lethe entity (as it would by now have become, since the two were intertwining rapidly) would remain at the metaplanar chasm to take Thayla's place as a defending entity.

Plus, now that Lethe remembers his past as Dunkelzahn, wouldn't he have taken some role in the Draco foundation if he had come back?

Anyway... just rambling on now, so I'll stop and let you rest your eyes...

[Lilt]

Jeezus. can people not use the spoiler tags?
I suppose there's no point now but:

[ Spoiler ]

1:Dunkelzahn placed his essence in the dragon heart.
2: A powerful spirit that had lost its way went to or was found by thalya.
3: Lethe and the dragon heart had some form of bond.
4: After the destruction of the bridge the dragon-heart was fused with lethe and billy.
5: After this fusion lethe remembered his 'previous incarnation' as Dunkelzahn

Dunkelzahn may have then remained at the gap between the worlds to remove any spikes removed by blood magic but the various mentioning of odd auras and astral rifts in draco foundation buildings (and the fact that assets inc. have a mage that can reach the gap between worlds) implies that the draco foundation and dunkelzahn will probably have made contact.

[booklord]

[Abstruse]

The Horrors in Shadowrun are probably dead. Since the companies making Shadowrun and Earthdawn are now competitors (even if amiable ones), odds are they won't be doing too much more crossover-type stuff anytime soon. Both companies have said they will remain in communication and make sure they don't step on the other's toes (like FanPro saying that the lost kaern (can't remember the name, starts with a P) is back while Living Room Games saying that it was lost forever), but don't expect some big crossover-type event like with the Horrors again anytime soon. That is unless WizKids (which still owns both properties and is simply licensing them to FanPro and LRG) steps in and asks for one...

Then again, with Shadowrun I've learned to expect the unexpected :P

The Abstruse One

[Ancient History]

There's been a lot of SR/ED cross-over in Fanpro and Lrg's material, but it's much more subtle.

[DigitalMage]

[Synner]

Lets get something straight, FASA had licensed Earthdawn to LRGs (meaning it kept the property rights to the game). When it went under a bunch of those rights went over to Wizkids (including Earthdawn) and Wizkids chose to continue the deal FASA had with LRG. This is nothing new.

[Drain Brain]

I'm very sorry Lilt, really. I wasn't thinking.

On a related topic, HOW DID YOU DO THAT?

[Synner]

You write [ spoiler ] without the spaces followed by [ /spoiler ] without the spaces to close the caption.

[Gyro the Greek S...]

Well, even if ED doesn't crossover so much, we still have those nice Wraith beasties from Paranormal Animals of Europe. Creepy lil' buggers.

[Dog]

Who is Lithe, you ask?
Well the the girl behind the counter at this cyber cafe is....

Oh, did I get here late?

[Hot Wheels]

[ Spoiler ]

Lethe was indeed Dunkelzahn who planned his "death" to generate enough power to create a magical artifact, well beyond existing mana levels, that could be used to destroy the spur, created by the Great Ghost dance, and being used by the Horrors, to close in on our world in advance of the next mana cycle.

Unfortunatly D lost his memory in the blast and spent the "Dragon Heart" serries trying to get on with a plan he couldn't really remember. It ended with him happily going off on the metaplanes with a reformed CZ to fight the horrors with the dragon heart.

[Orient]

[Ancient History]

[ Spoiler ]

Wraiths come in more than one shape and size; ED had Fire Wraiths and Demi-Wraiths among others, while SR has Storm Wraiths.

[Boondocker]

Hot Wheels,

[ Spoiler ]

What do you mean by 'a reformed CZ?' Thanks.

[Ancient History]

Boondocker

[ Spoiler ]

CyberZombie. Burnout/Billy. Dunkie/Lethe got stuck in him when possessing.

[Drain Brain]

[Abstruse]

With the CZ, read the trilogy and you'll understand. Us explaining it on here would take too long and just end up confusing you more.

And no, I'm not using the damn spoiler tags because if anyone hadn't read what was spoiled, no one would know what the hell I was talking about anyway :P

The Abstruse One

[SCLariat]

I spoke with Mike Mulvihill through email not too long before the Big D bit the big one. I argued long & hard that a change in plot direction wasn't needed, but in the end the FASA bigwigs decided to move in a different direction after the torch was passed from Tom Dowd (one of the original creators of ED & SR) to Mulvhill.

Mike was never a fan of ED, and he was even had less love for ED/SR interconnection. Mike wanted to move SR into a more Blade Runner-ish corporate conflict model. FASA's SR sales were suffering at the time, and they felt they needed to create a stir. They decided to solve both problems by eliminating the most high profile connection of the ED/SR crossover i.e. Dunkelzahn. Mike's words were something to the effect of "the pot had gotten stagnant...we killed Dunkelzahn to stir things up a bit. " There were a great deal of storylines that have spun off from the death of Dunkelzahn.

The whole character idea of Lethe was designed to give the fans the glimmer of hope that Dunkelzahn would return, even though FASA had no intentions of ever doing so. It was a gesture to mollify fans like me. The idea of Lethe/Burnout standing on the bridge was supposed to be Dunkelzahn's riding off into the sunset.

Its interesting to see that FanPro/WizKids are teasing a return of the plot like with the Comet/Ghostwalker storyline. I guess we'll have to wait and see if it pans out. One of the possible plots could be a return of Dunkelzahn a la Ghostwalker. Ghostwalker (i.e. Icewing) had previously summoned the spirit of his deceased mate. It may be possible that he would try and do the same for his brother.

This post has been edited by SCLariat: Sep 16 2003, 01:27 AM