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> Shooting blind, Capping those crafty runners
Necro Tech
post Feb 5 2005, 07:37 PM
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I have a hypothetical for everyone and maybe an idea for a few.

Person A has a target he needs to kill and in simply unable to see it. His target is invisible/ruthenium covered and he just can't make the test. He calls in for a little fire support and a friendly mage shows up to help out. He astrally projects, finds the target and manifests. Then he "covers" the target by occupying the same space as the target. Person A opens fire right at the manifesting mage he can see.

1.) Does this eliminate or reduce the +8 blindfire modfier?

2.) Would a smartlink function properly in this case?

3.) Would it make any difference if it was a spirit doing the covering? A watcher or two?

Make the case.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Feb 5 2005, 08:14 PM
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1) No. The manifestation cannot possibly be the exact same shape nor will it follow the movements of the invisible person with perfect accuracy.
2) Why not?
3) I'm not sure if I'd consider a low-force watcher spirit capable of this, otherwise it wouldn't really matter who/what is doing the "covering". The shape/size of the manifestation can be controlled somewhat, can it not? On the other hand, if you consider the manifestation of a Great Form Force-6 Elemental to look like a massive pillar of flame, then that wouldn't be of much help.

This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Feb 5 2005, 08:16 PM
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The Jopp
post Feb 5 2005, 08:17 PM
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1: Hmm, well, you wouldn't really be firing at the "right" target and is instead aiming at the manifesting image of the mage so yes. Now, this would (in my book) require (a possible) surprise test by Mr.Invisible and an opposed quickness test between the mage and Mr.Invisible as he SHOULD notice the form of the mage "enveloping" him and then trying to mimic his movements.

2: Smartlink would apply since it only gives the shooter a more effective firing stance/aiming and projecting a targetting reticle at the (probable) impact point.

A spirit migh (depending on your GM's POW) either take damage from the bullet (immunity applies of course) AND the bullet will hit the target with full force. Or the spirit takes damage and the force of the bullet is reduced due to hitting the spirit first.

A watcher could be a wee small target compared to an entire body, but good for pinpointing hit location.

Devious tactic and inventive use of magic says I.
:D
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hahnsoo
post Feb 5 2005, 08:34 PM
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Or you can have a low-Force elemental Engulf the target. Not sure how the Immunity to Normal Weapons or firing at the target would work in this case.
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blinkin
post Feb 5 2005, 08:56 PM
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Once our group was fighting a dragon that used invisibility. Our illusion expert, used trid phantasm to give the riggers a point to shoot at.
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Kagetenshi
post Feb 5 2005, 09:07 PM
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Jopp: the spirit is manifesting. There'd be no chance of the spirit being injured whatsoever.

I might reduce blindfire penalties slightly. I would not allow a smartlink to function, as its greater precision is wasted by not knowing where to apply said precision. In my games, the primary value would be knowing where to apply suppressive fire to.

~J
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gamemaster
post Feb 5 2005, 10:00 PM
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i dont think its a very bad idea ,id suggest lowering the modifiers from +8 to +4 and eliminating the use of smartlinks.weve actually went through this as a group and decieded its not a bad idea if your mage isnt needed more urgently somewhere else.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Feb 5 2005, 10:15 PM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
I would not allow a smartlink to function, as its greater precision is wasted by not knowing where to apply said precision.

Assuming that the manifesting person/spirit/thing is at all useful, aiming aids should help. The manifestation is the spot where the target most likely is at, thus hitting the manifestation more reliably (as you would with a smartlink) automatically means hitting the target more reliably.
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toturi
post Feb 6 2005, 03:55 AM
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I'd allow only Suppressive Fire. The manifestation only marks the approximate location of the target.
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Necro Tech
post Feb 6 2005, 05:21 AM
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The only reason I rule that the smart link wont work is that a manifesting character/spirit doesn't show up on technological sensors. Since your gun won't register a target.........

As for the covering, if the target was dodging or weaving the projecting mage would have a little trouble but that would definitely lower the effectiveness of the invisible target. I personally allow a reduction to + 4 but no smartlinks. The astral character is almost always much faster than the physical one and can float along instead of run/walk.
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Fortune
post Feb 6 2005, 05:26 AM
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QUOTE (Necro Tech)
The only reason I rule that the smart link wont work is that a manifesting character/spirit doesn't show up on technological sensors. Since your gun won't register a target.........

But the Smartlink just overlays a targetting indicator over normal vision. No technological sensors would be involved.
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Necro Tech
post Feb 6 2005, 05:42 AM
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A smartlink requires two parts, one of which is your gun. I'm not sure the smartlink could correctly analyze a true line of fire because your gun can't see anything? The reason I believe that your gun has to do at least part of the work is that it can compensate for empty space during full auto fire and can be set not to work against friendlies in the same way.

Just the way I believe they work. A laser sight would have the same problem unless you could see the whole beam and not just the dot. The light would pass right through a manifested object.
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tisoz
post Feb 6 2005, 05:50 AM
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I don't think the smartlink would work either, it doesn't see a target. But the laser would intersect the image, even as it passes thrtough. That is enough to get the TN modifier. Sort of like shooting the hole in the center of a wreath.
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Necro Tech
post Feb 6 2005, 05:52 AM
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Like I said, only if you could see the beam. During the day or in a lit room, you can't see it well if it all.
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