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> What Does Unaramed Combat Look Like In Your Game?, Using Movies as a Reference.
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kevyn668
post Feb 10 2005, 03:01 AM
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I was just curious about how the Shock members view meele combat. I went with Grosse Pointe Blanke b/c the scene in the high school with Martin and the other hitman is one the best, if not the best, fight scenes I've ever seen.
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Tarantula
post Feb 10 2005, 03:06 AM
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Gun adepts are like the cleric from equilibrium.
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Lindt
post Feb 10 2005, 03:09 AM
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Ill agree with Kevyn, its the best of the lot, and how I pattern melee combat in my games.
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Req
post Feb 10 2005, 03:10 AM
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The only hand-to-hand we regularly see is this one speed-sammie elf katana freak, rollin' a lot more dice than anybody else, wired-3 and 'wared up like crazy. He's a crouching tiger hidden dragon all on his own.
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kevyn668
post Feb 10 2005, 03:15 AM
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QUOTE (Tarantula)
Gun adepts are like the cleric from equilibrium.

I really wanted to put that one in there but I only had 10 spots.

While I'm at it, I wanted to include "Matrix" but figured "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" was too similar--minus the slow motion.

Sorry folks.
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mfb
post Feb 10 2005, 03:24 AM
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most combat is Grosse Pointe Blank; at higher levels, it evolves into CTHD.
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Smiley
post Feb 10 2005, 03:36 AM
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I gotta go with Grosse Pointe Blank because it's a helluva lot more realistic than everybody ninja-fightin' and flying all over God's creation. Which makes it a waaaaay better fight scene, too. Kev's right.

Cuz as much as I love a good Kung-Fu flick, that's not how fights are. Mostly it's just toe-to-toe, beating the other guy into stroganoff, not leaping 15 feet into the air and kicking at the speed of sound.
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Crimson Jack
post Feb 10 2005, 03:46 AM
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I was looking for Matrix or Matrix-lite. No bullet time and such craziness, but I like describing my players' moves with a bit of flair and style to them.
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Smiley
post Feb 10 2005, 04:23 AM
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Definitely. Most of the time, we keep it pretty simple for brevity's sake, but there have been crucial, mano-a-mano, two-men-enter-one-man-leaves moments where the character gets to describe exactly what happens (according to the net successes; with 1, you get in a rabbit punch, with 5 you land a flying roundhouse kick, et cetera.)
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Grinder
post Feb 10 2005, 09:15 AM
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We don't have much unarmend combat, but when it occurs it's very cinematic like steven seagal/ jean claude van damme. We're describing the actions and their results a lot, something we took over from our epic ED-fights. :)
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The White Dwarf
post Feb 10 2005, 09:51 AM
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Well theres choreographed and then theres realistic. While we tend not to describe everything out (prefer faster gaming) Ive always envisioned it closer to realistic at lower skill ratings, and closer to choreographed as you get higher, add magic/cyber, etc. While we need special effects to obtain matrix-esque fighting, if you actually had magic and cyber and so on it might be obtainable realisitically.. sorta messes with the definitions.
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Critias
post Feb 10 2005, 10:08 AM
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I tend to go for a GPB or a Bourne flick most of the time, depending on the character. With great rolls or unusual circumstances (neat terrain, etc), though, they can get vaguely Matrix-esque (the first, not the comic-book combat second, third flicks).
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Daishi
post Feb 10 2005, 12:30 PM
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For the most part, we go fast, up close and hard. I've watched the embassy and Paris knife fights from Bourne Identity is slo-mo far too many times. However, sometimes players with very skilled characters will leap (usually literally) into Matrix-like kung-fu situations. Such as a leaping/climbing fight over a volcanic chasm, complete with 10 foot jumps and wall kicks. It doesn't happen often, but when it does, it's very, very cool.
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GentlemanLoser
post Feb 10 2005, 01:00 PM
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"Gun adepts are like the cleric from equilibrium. "

Only if they've got Centering to get rid of the 'Using gun in melee' TN penalty...

Here's a H2H combat question. You're using a pistol to shot someone. In their go they charge, close the distance to you and engage you in H2H combat. What skill do you roll versus thier Martial skill? Unarmed? Club? Pistol?

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DrJest
post Feb 10 2005, 01:10 PM
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My gun adept has Clubs: Pistols specifically for that situation. If a GM allowed custom work from game start, I'd make the weapons with the reinforced frame option from CC as well.
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GentlemanLoser
post Feb 10 2005, 01:15 PM
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I really need the CC...
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U_Fester
post Feb 10 2005, 01:52 PM
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I go with Gross Point Blank. Simple quick combat in a confined area.

As for gun battle I tend to think of it more like open range. 6 or 7 guys at the begining. One gets shot right away, one gets blown away with a shotgun and the rest fire all their rounds and only one person gets hit. If you don't fire first, you will have a hard time of hitting the other targets firing back/moving.
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nezumi
post Feb 10 2005, 08:07 PM
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Definitely West Side Story. My adepts always take "Singing: Showtunes" as their centering skill, and the mundanes use it to help intimidate the enemies.

Actually, my only complaint about SR melee is how difficult it is for neither party to hit. I mean in sword fights, one out of five swings will actually hit, whereas in SR, for every attack SOMEONE has to resist damage.
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U_Fester
post Feb 10 2005, 08:35 PM
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QUOTE (nezumi)
I mean in sword fights, one out of five swings will actually hit, whereas in SR, for every attack SOMEONE has to resist damage.

You must have great dice roles. In the past our unarmed and unarmed only hit about 50% on unamred and less for armed
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hyzmarca
post Feb 10 2005, 08:44 PM
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As long as one character has a net success there is a hit. The only time no one gets hit in melee is when oth attacker and defender roll the same number of successes.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Feb 10 2005, 09:10 PM
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There is a hit even when they roll the same number of successes, as long as that number is greater than 0. The only case where no hit occurs in SR melee combat when neither is using maneuvers or Full Defense is when both the attacker and the defender roll 0 successes. sr3.122 shall set you free.
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Jrayjoker
post Feb 10 2005, 09:34 PM
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We have a 50-50 split, some want Hong Kong physics, and some want realistic dust-ups.
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Lindt
post Feb 10 2005, 09:38 PM
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Remember, melee combat isnt "I hit you, you hit me" Its the act of 2 people tangeling in the flurry of blows and stabs that is 2 people going at it. It just resolves who got hurt during the last few blows.
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shadow_scholar
post Feb 10 2005, 09:51 PM
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GPB is a pretty good analogy for when skills aren't matched perfectly. If skills and speed are matched perfectly I'd like to think it would look like something like the big fight scene in Rapid Fire, when Brandon Lee fights Al Leong (the guy you see in a lot of martial arts flicks, he is short with a moustache and usually sports a balding mullet, he was "Endo" in Lethal Weapon and "Uli" in Diehard). The fight scene they have in the laundry place is just awesome, a very close match of skills where I'd say some shots land, but there is also a lot of damage soaking happening, it even briefly uses some close quarters combat techniques, jumping and climbing type Athletics, and even some impromptu weapons technique. The fight finally ends when it seems like Al Leong gets frustrated and picks up a knife, and finally Brandon Lee blocks a strike, then turns the knife against him and makes him stab himself in the torso. A clear cut case to me where the defender probably has a better Unarmed skill than the Edged skill of the attacker and got a decidedly better roll, and the lethality of knife just sealed the deal.
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Critias
post Feb 10 2005, 10:06 PM
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While we're (vaguely) on the subject, I can't sing the praises of The Hunted loudly enough. Not only is it an all-around good movie (Benicio Del Toro is as freaky as always, and Tommy Lee Jones pulls off his almost-typical "loner detective" schtick as well as ever), but the knife fights are fantastic, simply because they're brutal and over very quickly (like knife fights should be).

They got some world-class Kali knife fighter guys (who train specops types in their free time) to help choreograph, etc, and it's great to watch some of the special features. The two choreographers they get on camera and interview? Neither is the stereotypical D&D looking knife fighter. One's a roly poley little Phillipino looking guy, the other's a big burly shaved head truck-driver lookin' white dude -- proof that it's technique and experience that matter, not the standard "whip thin" half elven rogue. ;)

But -- anyways! -- the knife fight(s) themselves? Good stuff, and very Shadowrun-feeling, simply because people do bleed as a result of pretty much every exchange of strikes. I mean, there's none of the "Van Damme dances around the knife expertly" stuff, these guys acknowledge that the human body is a fairly easy target to hit some part of if you've got a knife and know how to use it. People do their best to get non-lethal cuts, not to avoid getting cut entirely (which is a largely unrealistic goal).

The back and forth is quick and over even quicker; and as one of the guys interviewed (the real-life knife fighters, or whatever you want to call it), says?

"In a knife fight like this, it's over real fast. The loser goes to the morgue, and the winner goes to the hospital."

It's good stuff. Two thumbs up. Bloody thumbs, but thumbs all the same.
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