What new Cyber/Bio do you want? |
What new Cyber/Bio do you want? |
Feb 11 2005, 11:49 AM
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#1
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
The discussion about the power of mundanes (in comparison to adepts) and the last thread about the new adept powers of SOTA:2064 brought me to the question, which new pieces of cyber- and bioware we want?
I would like to see some piece of 'ware that grants protection against magic (and is only usuable for non-awakenend characters). Haven't made much thougts about it anyway... Allowing some sort of USB-cyberware: an arm or leg where you can add and remove gadgets nearly on the fly. M&M covers it a little bit, with the ECU, but it's not the way i want it. Make it easier to remove and upgrade cyberware. M&M really sucks there. Someone mentioned the idea of nanotech that allows cyberware to be removed easily, without the risk of losing essence (not gaining back the essence you spend). Just waiting for more ideas, so let your minds work! :) |
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Feb 11 2005, 12:27 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323 |
I'd like cyber arms with extra ECU so I can fit lots of goodies inside them. Go-go gadget! A bioware thermovision would make sense, but would sort of remove a major advantage of adepts and certain races, namely natrual theromvision. I'd think a bioware thingy that lets you control your external heat somewhat, similar to armour thermal dampening, would also be fun.
JaronK |
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Feb 11 2005, 01:11 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 345 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Leeds, UK Member No.: 4,046 |
Yeah, more mix'n'match, more modularity, more flexibility...
I'm not that bothered about new /stuff/ per se - there's certainly no particular items that spring to mind, but I'd like to see easier surgery, improved healing, improved cyber repair - all of which can be done through nano-tech. Reductions in cost for cyber across the board and lower the multipliers and availability for alpha and beta ware. Nothing too drastic... |
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Feb 11 2005, 01:13 PM
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#4
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
A total reworking of implanted Communications gear would be nice.
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Feb 11 2005, 01:18 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 345 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Leeds, UK Member No.: 4,046 |
yeah, that too. :)
Actually a reworking of all comms gear (implanted or otherwise) would be a good first step. |
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Feb 11 2005, 01:25 PM
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#6
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
I posted a several ideas for minor tweaks... http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=4171 More utility stuff than combat enhancing, but they'd help broaden genetech and bioware out of the combat monster domain. |
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Feb 11 2005, 03:41 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 30-January 04 Member No.: 6,043 |
A combination of street-level stuff and non-combat cyber.
An example of street cyber might be eyes that have ONLY low light or thermo or something. Very cheap, essence friendly. Sure, nobody who can afford real cybereyes will want them, but they make a nice option for the really poor, like gangers and such. Someone mentioned cyber allowing control over hair color. I'm really surprised this doesn't already exist. I think Shadowtech had a full-page color add for fiber-optic hair. Why the heck don't we already have this? A bio version might be nice, too. A while back someone described an "obvious cybereyes" option that would allow the eyes to hold more "free" essence worth of 'ware. I really like that idea. I've also been thinking about all this "mundanes got it tough" talk going around. Maybe something along the lines of "Neural Integrity Reinforcement," (to use M&M's reasoning about why Essence is lost. Personally I'd call it "Pattern Integrity Reinforcement") sort of like an IMS for non-cyberzombies. It has a certain Essence cost, but allows the installation of a slightly higher amount of Essence for free. Say, it costs 1.1 Essence, but allows 1.5 Essence to be implanted for free. This way, the Awakened that take it still suck down losing 2 points of magic but for kind of minimal gain. You can only get one, of course. Just thoughts. Oh, and better cyberlimbs, too. |
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Feb 11 2005, 07:34 PM
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#8
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Just throwing out ideas from my gaming group at random (I don't necessarily support or hate any one of them):
Something that adds dice, like Reflex Recorders and Synthacardium, that doesn't necessarily stack with Adept abilities. Bioware pheremones that allow someone to work with animals better. We have a variant cyberskull in our games that allows the facial sculpting and hair adjustment allowed by adept powers (this was long before SOTA: 2064 was published). Upgraded chipjack systems, or possibly even personality construct engrams (What ever happened to the tech in Dreamchipper?). The ability to download the consciousness of someone's brain and neural net into a box (like the Dixie construct in "Neuromancer", or the current incarnation of Rache Bartmoss in Cyberpunk). Tech that eventually leads to the biological data storage, maybe a bio/cyber "gatekeeper" which allows direct encoding of data onto the brain (similar to what Deus has done to create The Network). More options as far as Rigger interfacing... maybe a VCR that only allows you to use CCSS, or only allows you to control a single type of vehicle/drone. More options as far as simsense rigs... more detailed information on simsense rigs (VCRs and datajacks allow limited simsense, the Smartgun Link has a limited simsense rig). "External" cyberware... cyberware that is basically induction datajack pads on a limb and a machine rig is built over the limb as an extension... leading to a sort of power armor, I guess. |
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Feb 11 2005, 08:14 PM
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#9
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i want to see different types of cyberlimbs. industrial limbs with higher strength/quickness, more room for gear, but difficult or impossible to conceal; low-end prosthetic limbs with lower strength/quickness and little or no room for gear; etcetera.
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Feb 11 2005, 08:31 PM
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#10
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
How about body sculpting nanites. Changing the look of your body by rearranging fat deposits under the skin. Go from pot belly to breasts in 5 minutes...
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Feb 11 2005, 08:43 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 108 Joined: 6-December 04 Member No.: 6,871 |
I want to see brand name cyberware with different stats for different models.
I want to see alpha class ware being pushed as what is standard along with a price cut to relfect at how common it has become. |
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Feb 11 2005, 08:44 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 30-January 04 Member No.: 6,043 |
Youch! Maybe with a wound penalty or some stun damage to reflect how much that's gotta hurt... |
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Feb 11 2005, 09:07 PM
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#13
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
More uses for fingertip induction pads. Honestly I don't know why those things aren't used more often as an alternative for datajack ports.
A rewrite of the cyberlimb rules would bee good too. Right now it's prohitively expensive to use cyberlimbs as limbs that are actually stronger than normal human limbs, which seems really stupid to me. That neural integrity enhancement idea seems interesting. Something that allows mundanes to add more cyber more easily than Awakened would definately be a big plus. |
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Feb 11 2005, 09:12 PM
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#14
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
On Cyberlimbs: I liked the old SR2 ruling that the limb installed was equal to your regular arm in stats (until you tweaked it for cash). Combine that with the ECU rules and they get a little bit better. However, they do need to rework the rules entirely. It's just too mucky to really play around with on a consistent basis.
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Feb 11 2005, 09:21 PM
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#15
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
there's a problem with the concepts behind the SR2 rules, though: why would the average cyberlimb come with servos powerful enough to rip the cyberlimb right out of the socket? if i'm Str 1, and i remove the safety features that limit my cyberlimb so that it's also Str 1, that cyberlimb ought to ramp up to Str 9, right? at which point, i'm gonna try to open a stuck cabinet one day and rip my own arm off.
i think cyberlimbs ought to have set Str and Qui values, but it ought to be very cheap and easy to upgrade those values (5k/point, rather than 20k/point). this would solve most of the problems, and still make sense. |
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Feb 11 2005, 09:31 PM
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#16
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
The way we viewed it (any time we walked into a chop shop or somesuch) was seeing a machine that ran tests on your own physical strength and quickness, then suggested the proper arm for you to use. The proper arm being, of course, the one that has the same stats as you do (without modification, save for cyber mods like muscle replacement).
No removed "safety mechanisms" or anything. All stock. |
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Feb 11 2005, 09:33 PM
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#17
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
There's a bigger problem, and it's one many of you have overlooked: the more accessible cyberware gets, the more fucked mundanes get. Before any new cyberware gets introduced, this would be something the designers should finally get around to acknowledging and fixing. Of course, they're more interested in turning adepts (and, to a somewhat lesser degree, all awakened) into universe breaking gods, so it might be a while.
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Feb 11 2005, 09:34 PM
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#18
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
okay, that's actually pretty close to what i'm talking about. with your rules, the character has to get their arm modified/replaced whenever they raise their natural Str or Qui, right? same thing as what i'm saying then, basically, except that i'd make the char pay for the extra Str and Qui when they buy the arm. but, like i said, i'd make the Str and Qui much cheaper.
edit: arrrgh! please explain to my why no-cyber mundanes should be able to keep up with cyberware or magic? if they could, there'd be no point in getting cyber or magic, and everybody'd just play mundanes! not to mention the fact that, as it stands, you're better off not getting cyberlimbs if you want high Str and Qui. |
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Feb 11 2005, 09:38 PM
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#19
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
They don't have to, but it would be a worthwhile investment. So, basically, yes. That's how we always play (RL GMs like 2nd better. I could care less, personally) with cyberlimbs -- when people actually take them. |
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Feb 11 2005, 09:48 PM
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#20
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Please point out where I ever said uncybered mundanes. |
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Feb 11 2005, 09:53 PM
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#21
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Looks like she's saying "Adepts can initiate to get better. Mundanes just take 'ware. And when they're out of Essence, they can't take anything else."
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Feb 11 2005, 09:58 PM
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#22
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
I think Arethusa's point was that, under the current rules for geasea and Magic Loss due to Essence and Bio Index changes, upgrading Awakened characters with cyberware and bioware is far too easy and painless. This means that any upgrades to cyber or bioware that doesn't specifically address this problem will only serve to widen the power gap between the Awakened and the mundane, a gap which many think has become unreasonably wide already. The thing that you and others are missing, mfb, is that most people are arguing degrees of difference between Awakened and mundane, not that there should be no difference at all. Noone is saying that, given an Awakened and a mundane with equal skills and attributes, in fact equal everything other than the Awakened's magic, that the mundane shouldn't get his ass handed to him. What some are saying, and I am beginning to agree with, is that there is a slow power creep of Awakened abilities with no corresponding power creep for specifically non-Awakened abilities. Basically, you're getting too much power for the 25-30 build points you put into being an Awakened, and game balance as a whole is going to suffer as a result. |
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Feb 11 2005, 10:03 PM
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#23
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
And right there you've outlined the reason that cyberlimbs need to change. As written right now, cyberlimbs in general serve no practical purpose for a sam other than to suck up your Essence and be useless dead weights. Sometimes you'll see deckers and riggers use them as mobile suitcases for carrying all your tools and junk in, but that doesn't IMO represent what a cyberlimb should be. I mean, these are giant mechanical arms that you're welding to your body! They should have *Power*, dammit! :P |
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Feb 11 2005, 10:05 PM
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#24
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Maybe not power, but usefullness outside of storing crap.
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Feb 11 2005, 10:35 PM
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#25
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
MM radar vision.
Reworking of just about all the head and comware,as well as smartgun links. |
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