Insipid flaws, Or why the enemy flaw is a joke Options

[Charon]

You know 7th Sea? In that game you have to pay to have a nemesis or to be hunted. Which makes sense, because when your nemesis appears, the story center around you. You have to pay for that kind of privilege! Of course, you also get bonus XP in that session...

The point is, I love it when PCs include good hook in their background but I hate when they then turn around and start clamoring for edge point based on things that don't handicap them in the least.

As the 7th Sea RPG designer perfectly understood, it's not a disadvantage for the player to have enemies from his character's past. For the character, yes, but not for the player. This is Shadowrun, not Carebears the RPG! Some people are gonna try to kill your characters in every session, whether they are old nemesis or brand new enemies. In fact, a nemesis provide a PC with good roleplaying opportunities which can translate to bonus karma. What more do you need?

So if a PC is kind enough to give me carefully crafted enemies from his past to use in my game, fine. If he doesn't, the end result is the same ; people with guns and spells are still gonna try to kill his PC! So don't clamor for more edge point just because you cooked an half-baked story involving Damien Knight, Lofwyr and Deus!

(New player, sheesh!)

Same line of thought : Amnesia. So you managed to dump the job of designing your own background on your GM shoulders and you get the extra treat of having a session revolve around discovering your past every once in a while? Good for you. But wait a minute, you want bonus points on top of that?!?

Anyway, I think the whole edge/flaw package should be reviewed with the same optics that the 7th sea designer had. That guy understood edge/flaw in the context of a story.

[JudgeIto78]

Here here!

7th Sea was great for stuff like that. It was always about making the story of the adventure better and it's interaction with the characters more elaborate.

So glad I got the 2 core books used. :D

Too bad no one I know wants to play it :(

[Kagetenshi]

Disagree. With the Enemy flaw, they're out to get you specifically. They're not just there to drive you off (security guards), or to clean up the streets by sticking you in jail (Lone Star), or even hunting your team as a whole (corps out for revenge, bounty hunters, etc.). They're after you, and it's personal. Deals may even be struck to ensure your demise whilst enriching the rest of the team.

Amnesia is often abused, but when you think about it it's a pretty powerful Flaw. It's like taking Enemies, Mysterious Cyberware, and Hunted, plus a few more, only you don't get as many points for it.

~J

[Charon]

[Eyeless Blond]

Of course, your team "may" also end up stuck in the crossfire between you and your enemies, and get themselves killed over your Flaw. That does seem a little ridiculous.

And, regardless what the enemy is doing, it's still revolving around your character, so at least story-wise you get to come out on top. Sure, your *character* may not be in a good position, but hey, the spotlight's on you chummer!

Now, if only it didn't have to be a searchlight... :)

[FrostyNSO]

I milk amnesia as much as possible when one of my players takes it. Within reason.

As for enemies and the like, they make up one of the best parts of the game. Our group uses the "enemies based on starting resources" (or whatever) rule from SRcomp just for the sake of having a good hook or foil to lean on when there's no run planned or handy.

I had one player start with the 500 :nuyen: option. He said that he worked for a month at stuffershack to get the money, so we made his old manager be his enemy. "That damned ork quits two weeks after I make him an assistant manager. Nobody quits on my watch!"

Stupid and Cheesy? Yes. Entertaining? Hell Yes.

[Arethusa]

[FrostyNSO]

I've found the best way to bring enemies in isn't to make them a central part of the story, but to use them to throw a wrench into the works every once in a while.

Of course, if you have a huge, high-"rated" enemy, that can't help but to become a central plot sticker.

[Kagetenshi]

[toturi]

[Glyph]

The Extra Enemy flaw is a flaw not because there is one more person added to all of the others gunning for the PC. It is a flaw because it represents someone who can show up at exactly the wrong time. Instead of making the PC the "center of attention", have the PC get wounded/hospitalized, have contacts threatened, have rumors spread that could undermine his street rep, etc. Enemies should be frustrating and annoying.


Anmesia is even more fun.

If it is only the 2-point version, then the player still needs to write a background - Where did he wake up? How did he meet his contacts? How did he get the gear and lifestyles that he has? How did he discover what he could do? And he is still at the mercy of the GM, plot-hook wise. If the player is abusing the flaw, you can give him a humiliating past. Maybe he did gay troll porn, or belonged to the Humanis Policlub.

The 5-point version is even more limiting. Sure, they get 5 build points, but you get to design their entire character for them - a character that is less likely to be min-maxed for combat and more likely to be out of the player's normal comfort zone. And on top of the free reign with plot hooks, you get to start the character off in any predicament that you want to place him in.

[RunnerPaul]

[The White Dwarf]

In a game where anyone has a decent shot at killing you, where you cant trust anyone and perform illegal activites to put bread on the table, where people are out to get you simply because you exist.... explain again how having *more* people hunt *specifically you* is not a bad thing. Cause that doesnt seem to make a whole lotta sense. Yea, it makes the hunted character the center of the action, for all of like 1 scene. Unless the GM writes the whole campaign around 1 flaw, in which case theyre pretty silly regardless of what the flaw is.

[toturi]

[Cray74]

[Charon]

[hahnsoo]

The general rule that we use is "A flaw only gives points if it actually IS a flaw." In other words, if it is something the GM can't exploit or penalize the player for, it isn't a flaw, it's roleplaying. So the female ballbuster in the group doesn't get points for being vindictive, unless it gets her (and the rest of the team) in big trouble occasionally, something that would not normally occur in the context of the situation.

The "Hunted" or Enemy flaw in our group simply means that the GM can bring in the Hunter or Enemy at any time, ruining otherwise perfect plans, "resurrecting" more times than Apophis on Stargate SG-1 or John Travolta's movie career, and until the PC buys off the flaw, they simply won't be able to do anything about it (the enemy always has a "backdoor" plan, etc.). It's much less a "spotlight on the player" than it is "a major pain in the ass". Also, most of the REAL enemies our group gets are "earned" in the course of play anyway.

Time concerns are definitely an issue, as is "run fatigue" (when sessions go on for too long). But I find that the more I plan, the less satisfying the result of the run tends to be. I generally don't do anything storywise, and simply use my planning time to outline the major players, agendas, and how they interact, as well as the stats for the key NPCs. If there isn't room in my games for player-driven improvisation or "dead time" (time to be filled when the opportunity presents itself), then I figure I have overplanned.

[Crimson Jack]

[Wounded Ronin]

This just in: some Flaws are silly and are easily abused! More breaking news on the hour...

[hahnsoo]

[mfb]

charon, has it occurred to you that you might not be running the game the way it was intended to be run? i mean, more power to you, and all, as long as you and your group are having fun. but if you're running a non-standard game style, you really can't complain when the existing rules don't support it.

[Sandoval Smith]

Charon, you forgot to tag your post: Your Mileage May Vary.

Maybe that's how _you_ run your game, but not the way I do it. I treat enemies and hunted as a flaw, because that's what they are. Do you do anything with down time? Because that's when I'd have enemies doing most of their stuff, not in the middle of the run. It can also be a real threat to a PC's life. If they have a six point hunted flaw, there's a very real possibility that one day they're going to step outside and eat a sniper round (if that's the appropriate style for the enemy, etc). If they're hunted, they have to keep their head down, or else their going to be tracked down, and probably end up losing safe houses, equipment, and contacts trying to lose themselves again.

This doesn't all have to happen during game sessions either, and I would find it rather odd that a PC keeps having face to face confrontations with an enemy. That is giving too much of a spotlight to one PC. If the PCs end up getting their faces on the news, during the downtime, the hunted PC might get word that their pursuer is closing in, and that they'd better pull up digs and run.

YMMV.

[Demonseed Elite]

Oh how I hate the edges and flaws system. Oh the hate. The horse-trading and rules-wrangling over the beautiful dysfunctions that really define a character. Drama watered down to character creation points.

Grr!

[Sandoval Smith]

[hahnsoo]