Magical Adept vs. Mage, Which one's 'better'? Options

[rlemansky]

Greetings.

I'd like to avoid any munchkin issues, but I'm at bit of a loss. Why would anyone play a Magical Adept over a full Mage? Can't most of the adept powers be simulated with either Magic or Low Essence cyber-ware? If so, what advantage is gained by being an Adept? What am I missing?

Any input's appreciated.

R

[Ranneko]

2 words, B priority

Or alternately: Lower cost

So you get more skills/better stats/more cash

[Critias]

No you don't. Being an Adept of the Magician's Way is priority A.

[GentlemanLoser]

Improved Ability: X
Weapon Focus.
Centering 2 (Your weapon focus of choice)

Magic resistance + Spell Defence + Shielding.

Mystic armour + Armour

Enchanced Aim + Improved Pistols

[Ranneko]

True, misread. My mistake.

Well there are adept powers than cannot be reproduced by spells or cyber, such as improved skill, or traceless you also don't need foci to keep an adept skill running, unlike mage spells.

It's a matter of what you want really.

Besides some concepts work better with a magician's way adept.

*Still plans on making a magical girl sometime*

[Endgame50]

Well, it depends on which way you're developing the character. I wouldn't make a Magical Way adept as a spell hurler who happens to have some adept powers. As you noted, for most of what a magician would find useful, you could probably duplicate it with low powered cyberware.

The main benefit afaik, is the flexibility of an adept who has spells at his fingertips.

For example, you could take a improved reflexes at +3 at force 1, put it in a force 1 sustaining focus, and then learn masking. It'll be covered by your passive masking, leaving you with a more or less permanent +3d6 to your initiative. (which is roughly equivalent to 2 levels of wired reflexes, a little worse statistically). You spend 2 spell points, more money, but only 1 power point instead of three.

a force 1 levitate would allow you to fly, albeit slowly.

So on and so forth. If you're willing to risk physical drain, there's a horde of low drain spells out there you could use at higher forces. (Improved invis, stealth, heal (Heh heh), and so on.) I'd recommend using that iniatory point to up your spellcasting ability though, since it's the first to go if you lose magic--best to have a buffer.

On the adept side, you could go social and take kinesics (no starting PC can take cultured phermones, and kinesics are better anyway) or go physical and take killing hands or whatever. You're then dealing with an adept who has a handful of spells to improve his performance.

[GentlemanLoser]

Ambidextrous + Improved Pistols + Enhanced Aim + Centering (Pistols) + Item attunement = 4 shots per phase at TN2.

Ambidextrous + Improved (weapon) + Enhanced reflexes + counterattack + weapon focus + Increase Strength/Strength Boost + Centering (Weapon) = blender

Throw in some nice decrease body spells...

I'm sure I've missed out some stuff that can be included...

And do all this from invisibility.

[Grinder]

I have an magician adept in my current group. Works out fine so far, but the fact that he is unable to scout in the astral is really a big handicap. Sure, you can pick up Astral sight for 2 magic points, but that's very expensive.

[GentlemanLoser]

Isn't there a limited astral projection metamagic skill for Magical Way Adepts?

[Grinder]

Don't know at the moment. The player of that char would probably know it and he hadn't mentioned it, so...

[Fortune]

Limited Astral Projection is a Metamagic from SotA64, usable only by Magical Adepts. The limitation is that you substitute minutes for hours for the duration.

GentlemanLoser: I am not sure if you know it from your above post, but AFAIK Centering is available per skill category. You wouldn't have Centering (Pistols) or Centering (Swords), but rather Centering (Ranged Combat) and Centering (Melee Combat).

[Dawnshadow]

Created with the house rule that magician adepts gain metamagic with every initiation (except to shed gaesa), in part because nobody thought it made sense, and in part because he's a shaman of a very unusual totem (darkness) and so isn't welcome in the multi-style Initiatory group the PC Adept is part of, and is too conditioned against expecting help to go find one, so he's initiating with brutal costs...

Improved invisibility + ambidex + weapon focus (3) + increase str (4) + aptitude (swords)..

TN 3 in melee, and once you get up to skill 8... that's 15 dice per round (applying weapon focus bonus only once, since getting the bonus with both hands is a touch on the crazy side (force 3 would give 4 dice.. force 4 would give 6..).. if I want it on both, I'm going to get a second weapon focus..) All spells on sustaining foci.

Add in improved reflexes, improved quickness, some sense mods, and quickdraw..

A martial art... that let you buy manouvers for weapons.. and you have multi-strike and whirling as well.

Couple that with a few force 4 spells (powerball, manaball, stunball) and you have a character that can slaughter goons magically, and take out most anything with swords.

Add in an ally spirit initiation and you have all the abilities of a weak mage with the combat ability of an adept. Add a power focus to the mix and you can throw any spell a starting mage can without going into physical drain, with a lot more melee ability and a few metamagic techniques to round it out. (Mine are masking, divining, and shielding as I recall.. haven't gone with centering yet, it's next on the list)

[Tarantula]

I'm sorry, any aptitude (some combat skill here) is cheezy and geared for fighting already. The book even says the GM should consider it carefully.

[Kanada Ten]

Quick Strike, Multitasking, Improved Senses (not resisted like the dumb detection spells), and a few choice powers like Killing Hands (drainless) can make a Magician's Way adept pretty badass. And Geasa can make the Magical Power a bit cheaper.

[Dawnshadow]

[Fortune]

Actually, the recommendation is against all Combat, Magical, or Computer skills.

[Dawnshadow]

Ah, alright.

The point about nobody being a natural in that department becomes all the more relevent for the 'cheesy' stuff.

It's potentially unbalancing. It still makes sense that people would have it.

(I don't personally have the book, just the GM does, so I can't check the exact lines, just go with my trick memory. Apparently I should reread it.)

Personally, I wouldn't recommend it in a low power game, because it would be a far more serious thing there. But.. the adept started into a fairly high-powered game -- the other two characters had 15+ karma pool.

Beyond that, just that I wouldn't recommend it doesn't mean that it shouldn't happen. I'd be just as concerned about a troll Sam with natural body 11, a pair of cyberarms, and titanium bones.. (body 14), or even worse, a pair of cyberlegs instead of cyber-arms, for body 15.

[Tarantula]

But, a body of 15 isn't as game-breaking as -1 to ALL TNs permanently. Aptitude anything is a serious bonus. Aptitude pistol + laser sight gives you benefit of a smart link. How about that same troll, with aptitude polearms, and a polearm? base 3 TN in melee combat with 3 (or is it 4?) reach.

Aptitudes problem, is that you can tag it on any other game-breaking thing, and make it worse.

[Dawnshadow]

[U_Fester]

I would have the body of 15 over aptitude any day of the week. With armor of 6 you need to bring in some big guns to do some damage, plus the 15 dice to roll for damage isn't that bad either.

[BitBasher]

[Fortune]

[Cynic project]

Um, those cyber troll don't like the fallowing things, Asullt rifles on burst fire with Ex-ex, lasers, shaped charges, MAD dicetors, just name a few things.

But even das uber troll can go down. The problem with aptitude and the skills is recommend you adviod, is that why wouldn't the pistol adept have it?Why wouldn't the spell slinger? Any flaw or edge that you have to ask why wouldn't any character have, is not worth putting into the game.

[mfb]

given the current rules, the mage will quickly and easily outstrip the magician's way adept in terms of raw destructive capability, versatility, and just about every other measurement of "powerful" i can think of. physmages progress, magically, at half the rate of full magicians or regular adepts: they can either gain a metamagic or gain a power point. a competently-run will burn the pants off of a competently-run physmage, given ~30+ karma. at charagen, though, a physmage is initially the better choice.

[Fortune]

If the rules for Magician Adept Initiation were fixed it would be a different story though.