weapon focci:lasers |
weapon focci:lasers |
Feb 21 2005, 09:12 PM
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#1
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
Well, I know there is a reason you can't make a gun into a weapon foci...But what about lasers?
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Feb 21 2005, 09:23 PM
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#2
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
No projectile weapons can be made into weapon foci... I suppose if you attached something sharp to the laser, you can make it into a weapon focus for Edged weapons, but you can't make a weapon focus that adds to a projectile skill of any kind. |
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Feb 21 2005, 09:49 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 210 Joined: 8-October 04 Member No.: 6,736 |
Yup, a laser is just shooting particles of energy rather than particles of metal. It is still a projectile weapon as far as foci are concerned.
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Feb 21 2005, 09:57 PM
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#4
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
Well, here it is you see bullets and arrows (etc)are not part of the gun. Lasers are...
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Feb 21 2005, 10:00 PM
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#5
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
So the beams of focused light are part of the weapon? I'm not sure I'm buying that argument. But even if you create a harpoon gun with a rope that connected the harpoon to the gun so that it was part of a single weapon, you still couldn't create a weapon focus out of it. |
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Feb 21 2005, 10:09 PM
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#6
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
how, exactly, are lasers more a part of a laser weapon than bullets are a part of a firearm? U PHYSICS EXPLAININ': LACKING
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Feb 21 2005, 10:15 PM
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#7
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Not to mention the implications... if you did create a weapon focus laser, would that project with you when you are astrally projecting? Would you be able to shoot "astral lasers"? Weapon Foci are defined as magical melee weapons, although in the same page of the BBB, they describe the problems with enchanting magical missile weapons. I think it is a lot more involved than the weapon leaving the user's hands. The weapon when bonded is an extension of the Awakened character, and that allows the weapon to manifest astrally as part of the Awakened character's aura (making it effective against astral targets). You could make a Weapon Focus into the shape of a laser, but it would be no more than an astral club... the beams would not count for the purposes of weapon foci rules.
You can probably attune a laser (along with any other missile weapon) as an adept, but that's as far as the rules go. |
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Feb 21 2005, 10:21 PM
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#8
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Technically, you probably could, but since Reach is a major factor of Weapon Foci, the costs would be extremely prohibitive. |
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Feb 21 2005, 10:52 PM
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#9
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
Well, tell me what guns do to bullets? Aren't they simply high tech pipes that contain and control the reaction of the gunpowder to cause the bullet to fly in one way?
Laser changes the state and form of energy. You take a battery and use it to send energy threw the laser. The enegry goes threw the parts of the gun. It moves threw it. The laser changes the photons. |
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Feb 21 2005, 11:01 PM
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#10
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
guns change the state of matter, releasing stored energy through the application of other energy. laser weapons change the state of energy, drawing energy from a power source and converting it into other energy through the use of voodoo. i'm still not seeing how the laser is more a part of the laser weapon than a bullet is a part of the gun.
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Feb 21 2005, 11:04 PM
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#11
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
I don't see how this makes a laser functionally similar to a melee weapon, especially in terms of having a weapon focus as an extension of the caster's aura. The weapon focus definition is pretty specific in that it has to apply to a melee weapon. Although the missile weapon restriction sounds to me like a bunch of handwaving to prevent folks from creating magical guns or bows (and all of the astral problems associated with them), it's still there. |
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Feb 22 2005, 07:36 AM
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#12
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
First let me say I disagree with you it is not possible to do that. Now assuming it was the difficulty and cost (both karma and cash) of enchanting a weapon focus is not dependant on its reach or size. Wither creating a weapon focus dagger or combat axe your costs and chance of success will be the same. Sorry there will be one difference. You will have to by a bigger weapon to enchant. The increased cost of large weapons on the open market would appear to be due to merchants profiteering of the larger weapons. And maybe a little balance. Edward |
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Feb 22 2005, 07:53 AM
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#13
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,011 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 7,087 |
If the a laser beam is considered to be connected to the weapon through the photon particles, I'm gonna argue that the bullets are connected to the firearm through the atoms of oxygen and nitrogen in between.
Heck, screw that. Instead I'm gonna argue that everything is connected and start a sect where we come together to enchant Mother Earth into one big foci. |
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Feb 22 2005, 07:55 AM
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#14
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
another thing to fix in SR4.
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Feb 22 2005, 08:10 AM
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#15
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,011 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 7,087 |
Yes, they really should give a complete list of every weapon that can be enchanted in order to avoid confusion.
A knife A spoon A pointed stick A banana A tiger... |
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Feb 22 2005, 08:33 AM
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#16
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
yes, exactly, except not. instead, they should make sure that the enchanting rules match the rules for buying enchanted items.
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Feb 22 2005, 09:42 AM
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#17
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
I suppose mentioning the laser crescent axe at this point would only agrivate the discussion?
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Feb 22 2005, 09:44 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 392 Joined: 13-January 05 From: Forgot where his meat body was Member No.: 6,971 |
If you do, I'll pull out ye old Threats book and ask my GM to let me build a nuclear bomb weapon focus like Winternight.
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Feb 22 2005, 09:47 AM
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#19
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
not really. the same arguments still apply; you're enhanting the axe (which is still sharp and still does damage on its own), not the lasers. if the GM allows you to get the extra damage that a laser axe deals, when you go wandering around the astral with it, it's his job to explain why--not mine.
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Feb 22 2005, 09:50 AM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 392 Joined: 13-January 05 From: Forgot where his meat body was Member No.: 6,971 |
Anyone who thinks that a ranged weapon foci isn't munchkinny should be subjected to a week of public humiliation anyhow. :P
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Feb 22 2005, 09:37 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 04 From: N 42° 43.799'. W 84° 27.901' Member No.: 6,496 |
Though it's not a canon explanation, my view is as follows:
All weapon foci require contact with a living aura to function. In a way, you could say ones aura is the source of its power and that it channels it in such a way to extend it into the weapon and create a more damaging effect. Now, this is why I think the laser argument doesn't wash: You're trying to say that it's different because the laser creates the focused beam of light. Well, you're right in the sense that it's different. You're dead wrong in the sense that the light is part of the weapon. The light is generated at the time--it bears no part of the enchantment that allows the weapon to be used as a focus. Moreover, you're firing photons--which leave your aura as soon as they leave the weapon. It's a projectile weapon alright. It doesn't matter how they're generated, it just matters that it stays in contact with your aura. If you really want a ranged weapon focus, you might be able to swing that tired old chain on a harpoon trick. I wouldn't recommend that, either though. |
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Feb 22 2005, 11:07 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 232 Joined: 19-October 04 Member No.: 6,773 |
I bet Leonardo could have done it. Optics was his specialty after all.
*runs and hides* |
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Feb 22 2005, 11:51 PM
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#23
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
I'd say Yes, but only if you use it like a club. |
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Feb 23 2005, 01:51 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323 |
A laser, in effect, shoots a stream of photons. A minigun, in effect, shoots a stream of bullets. In both cases, it's a large number of independent objects flying out of the weapon (though obviously there's more of them from the laser).
So... nononononononononono. JaronK |
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Feb 23 2005, 02:29 AM
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#25
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
What was the explination from SR2 (or maybe just how one of my GMs explained it)...
If it leaves your aura, it no longer works as a focus. So shooting a bullet would therefore make the bullet leave your aura. No more use as a focus. And, as far as I figure, you can't enchant energy. |
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