 On my Board, Sometimes I worry about you folks |
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 Feb 22 2005, 08:33 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 28-January 05 From: Phoenix, Arizona Member No.: 7,030  |
[QUOTE]From teleportation, to the ripoff of WoD, to the "rolling percentile for Karma", to the 20 Attribute base, I see very little that involves any sort of Realism in the campaigns that you've described. Every time I read them, I think "This person really needs to play Rifts". [QUOTE]
Teleportation involves Magic, which is the ability to cast Spells which Bend the laws of Physics. "rolling of percentile for Karma" is what my GM did, and what I do, mainly for well developed characters who usually last for more then half a run. I'm not sure if yer aware of this but I've only described one campaign. Evertime I read a reaction like this to one of my posts I think to myself "open foot, insert mouth". I wonder how many of you actually stop and think things through before you react to them. Also I've decided to stop gunking up the posts with clarifications and reiterations. So I've decided to start this topic. <sigh> and now that the toothache has been calmed by the pain killers, I think I'm gonna head for the sack. |
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Feb 22 2005, 08:43 AM
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#2
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
good point, man. i feel you.
edit: bah, he actually posted something, ruining my hilarity. |
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Feb 22 2005, 08:43 AM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 7-February 05 From: San Antonio, Aztlán Member No.: 7,062 |
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Feb 22 2005, 08:50 AM
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#4
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Teleportation is one of those things that are expressly forbidden in the magic rules, specifically : Sorcery cannot bend the time/space continuum. So you've chosen to break that part of the system, that's a house rule. Rolling percentile for Karma may be what your GM does, but it severely affects the growth and strength of your character and affects the overall power level of the campaign. Anything from 0 to 100 Karma per run sounds quite munchkinish, unless you meant something else. Again, it's not wrong to run a high-powered game (I played a high powered DnD game for 2 years in middle school). It's not wrong to play with house rules. But there are a lot of things that you describe that are incongruent with the Sixth World, that may be much better served by a game like GURPS Shadowrun or Rifts. My suggestion, in order to make your case, is to start describing your other campaigns and experiences with Shadowrun. I don't know about others, but I can be taught, and I can change my mind if presented with a logical and consistent argument. |
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Feb 22 2005, 08:52 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 392 Joined: 13-January 05 From: Forgot where his meat body was Member No.: 6,971 |
Weredigo. No offense intended but do you ever stop and worry that perhaps you're making very little sense at all? ;)
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Feb 22 2005, 08:59 AM
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#6
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Too many painkillers, 'digo, if such a thing is indeed possible. This thread needs to die.
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Feb 22 2005, 09:00 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 392 Joined: 13-January 05 From: Forgot where his meat body was Member No.: 6,971 |
There is no such thing as too many painkillers.
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Feb 22 2005, 09:01 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 28-January 05 From: Phoenix, Arizona Member No.: 7,030 |
A house rule that was never expressed to me, and that I didn't see written in my Core Rules Book. The spells we dissallow are Turn to Goo. reason, put onto the ground a book, and a stone, cast spell, both book and stone are turned to goo, when you drop spell the book and stone occupy the same space at the same time, congrats, you've just blown off 90 percent of the earth.
None taken, some things I say can be understood right off the bat, other things, you just hafta let mull over in your mind for a bit. A few things might make absolutely no sense at all. If the powers that be meant for us to understand each other one hunneret percent, all the time, perfectly, we all would have been born with Telepathic Broadcast and Reception. a little humor on Teleportation. I teleported Home one night with Ron, and Sue, and Meg Ron stole Meggy's heart away and I got Suzy's Leg.
Especially when you have an Abscessed tooth and Infection. Arethusa, you don't like it, ignore it. |
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Feb 22 2005, 09:02 AM
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#9
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Someone else reads Asimov, I see.
Edit: I'm an idiot, that was DNA. Similar to Asimov's humor in this particular instance, though. ~J |
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Feb 22 2005, 09:04 AM
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#10
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Teleportation doesn't exist in the Core Rule Book either, for this reason. If you want to look up the limitations of spells and spell design, go to Magic in the Shadows (which frankly should be in the Core Rule Book... maybe in SR4). |
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Feb 22 2005, 09:05 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 28-January 05 From: Phoenix, Arizona Member No.: 7,030 |
Kage, that was from Adams, not Asimov.
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Feb 22 2005, 09:09 AM
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#12
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I realized that shortly after posting. See edit.
~J |
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Feb 22 2005, 11:29 AM
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#13
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Edit: Nevermind! :please:
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Feb 22 2005, 12:01 PM
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#14
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
It's not a house rule, what you're doing is. Where'd you get the stats for a Teleport spell? Not from the main book. Did you create it using MitS (apparently not, or you'd have noticed that MitS specifically states teleportation is impossible)? So, if it's not in the core book, and it's not done via MitS, and it specifically contradicts the background...hey, smells like a house rule! |
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Feb 22 2005, 12:11 PM
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#15
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Not Canon.
Not Canon. Not "on my board". Haveaniceday. |
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Feb 22 2005, 04:20 PM
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#16
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
... Er, that's all well and good because that spell and ones that work like it havent been in SR since first edition, about what, 10-12 years ago?
And if I may ask, what exactly is "rolling percentile dice for karma"? |
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Feb 22 2005, 04:24 PM
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#17
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
I took it to mean rolling d100 and adding the results on top of the usual Karma award. What he COULD have meant, though, was rolling a d10 (added on top of the usual Karma award)... which is still way more Karma than I've ever seen distributed outside of a printed run. One of our players used to play in a group who rolled a d6 with the Rule of Six to determine Karma... that wasn't the only thing wrong with the group, and suffice to say, he's now playing with us instead of them. |
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Feb 22 2005, 04:26 PM
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#18
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
Leaving aside, for the moment, that what you're playing sounds more like a big mass of poorly-thought-out house rules than like anything that could be called "Shadowrun"... where did you get the phrase "on my board" as meaning "in our game"? I've been gaming for twenty-three years and I've never heard it from anyone but you.
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Feb 22 2005, 04:57 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 485 Joined: 25-October 04 Member No.: 6,789 |
You know every time I see someone say 'Not Canon' I get this picture of a funny little man with a funny mustache typing away at a keyboard.
There is one thing that makes anything a group decides to do 'canon'. I believe it is actually stated in the Core rules that if you don't like how something is done, or a particular ruling that you can ignore it all together. Now I like most of the rules. A few of the changes from SR2 to SR3 I am not particulary happy about so in my campaign they never happened. Truthfully I can say my campaign is 'canon' in that it holds with the feel of old school ShadowRun. I'm not saying my campaign decisions are any more or less valid than anyone elses. In fact not even the game developers have that privilege. You (and they) can express your opinion, but it is no more than that. BTW: My old group used to do a percentage roll for karma. You got you RP reward, humor reward, drama reward, brilliant insight reward, chutzpah reward, and then the GM would set the base Karma reward. You could trade some of your other karma rewards for a 20% bonus (each point) on the die (open ended)and then you could roll the percentile dice and see how much of the base reward you got. |
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Feb 22 2005, 05:47 PM
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#20
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
How is turning a book and rock to goo, then dropping the spell cause them to occupy the same space at the same time and cause the end of the world? Wouldn't the goo mix together and take up a total volume equal to the combined volume of the book and rock? Dropping the spell when they are mixed together would result in a rock with pieces of book mixed through it and a book with pieces of rock mixed through it. It would take up space equal to the space of the rock plus the space of the book.
And who is to say that the goo doesn't draw back upon itself to reform into the book and the rock? That was how we used to play it when cast upon a person. They didn't reform into a bunch of random flesh strewn about the floor. |
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Feb 22 2005, 05:56 PM
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#21
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Moreover, though it's popular to assume it would, who is to say that two objects occupying the same space at the same time would cause any sort of explosion? More likely the individual objects would be ripped apart as bits of the component atoms attracted and repelled each other, but from the outside it would probably be a fairly calm-looking process.
~J |
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Feb 22 2005, 06:16 PM
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#22
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Actually, they would never occupy the same space. They could possibly comingle but that't not the same thing. You'd end up with a screwed up book and a screwed up rock both stuck to each other.
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Feb 22 2005, 06:23 PM
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#23
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Even a basic knowledge of chemistry will teach you that the primary component in matter is nothing. The secondary component are the interatomic magnetic fields, and the lesser components are the bits that appear solid when observed with best technology, but are also mostly empty in every mathematically sound model.
Even assuming that somehow the goo is immune to material physics (and for some reason doesn't immediately sink into the earth), dropping the spells has very little chance of getting two atomic nuclei to overlap. If somehow that still did happen, and the two overlap well enough that they don't just fly apart from each other, you have successfully fused two atoms, and released a tiny amount of thermal energy and radiation. If more sci-fi authors had a basic understanding of science, pathetic statistically impossible assumptions like that wouldn't propogate themselves. |
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Feb 22 2005, 06:32 PM
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
And what "science" fiction book told you that? When you get atoms to pack together closely, they just rebound and release the energy that packed them together initially. (The like charges of the subatomic particles repel.) There's no new energy coming out of the spring back. Now, for each gram you're trying to pack to an unnaturally high density (as might be done in a nuclear bomb, where densities get 2-4x higher than natural fissionables exist), you usually need 1 or more grams of high explosives, so the "spring back" can involve a sizable bang. If the materials packed together are, say, plutonium or deuterium, you might get a small nuclear explosion, but that's still not going to take off 90% of the Earth's mass. Frankly, I don't think you're going to get an explosion. I think when the goo-book turns back to a solid book, it's going to be warped and distorted around the stone. (Which is why "turn to goo" was probably dropped like a "stone." I know the first time my friends and I used it on a security guard, someone said, "Start throwing scoops of goo away, then drop the spell!") And the spell isn't going to supply the energy to blast 90% of the Earth off. |
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Feb 22 2005, 07:30 PM
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#25
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
I would have assumed that, if anything, the book and stone might have melded together in some form. I'm not sure what your rationale for assuming an explosion of antimatter-esque proportions is.
Incidentally, all-time great uses for Turn to Goo: swift and no-pain stripping of cyberware from corpses (I forget how this worked, although it was explained to me at the time... something about the cyberware having higher resistance than the body). Yech... |
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