 On my Board, Sometimes I worry about you folks |
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 Feb 23 2005, 03:41 AM
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#51
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323  |
Of course, then you could have a character with the clubs skill, specialized to (weird hybrid goo objects), and kick arse.
JaronK |
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Feb 23 2005, 03:43 AM
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#52
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Why wouldn't the Goo separate into the two objects? Book atop Brick by density? After all, the astral template hasn't altered.
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Feb 23 2005, 04:12 AM
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#53
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Who cares? It didn't make to SR3 for a reason...
Get back to how randomly earning 1-100 KPs is balanced. |
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Feb 23 2005, 05:13 AM
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#54
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 28-January 05 From: Phoenix, Arizona Member No.: 7,030 |
<sigh>
The Karma Cost table 1 point to an Att = 100 1 point to a skill, or to purchase a skill starting at 1 point = 10 to drop the TN down by 1 point = 10 ( have one player who does this constantly) to purchase 1 success = 10 to purchase new spell = 20 to purchase Ressurection = 100 or 1point of willpower. to save your butt from near total disaster for a D4 roll = 1 point D4 is rolled 1 = Urkel Moment, yes yer alive but you have another problem 2 = ReRoll chance 3 = Finger of God moment, your survival is Miraculous 4 = Boo Yah, not only are you alive but what you did just gave the opposition a reason to think twice. If yer still confused, it's not my fault. |
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Feb 23 2005, 05:25 AM
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#55
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 28-January 05 From: Phoenix, Arizona Member No.: 7,030 |
Listen to the experts, they'll tell you it's impossible, then go do it. Nothing is Impossible, in any role playing game, Improbable, highly unlikely, infeasable maybe but not impossible, that's why we let Dice decide certain situations.
and it is in this spirit that this topic was started, I find a few things in the Core Rule Book either way too complicated, or totally realistic IMHO.
if the Core Rule book states that then I still disagree with it. To me it's unrealistic. Magic does not work via the laws of physics, it bends, twists, ties it into a knot, tweaks it. At least that's how I view magic and use it. |
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Feb 23 2005, 05:41 AM
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#56
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
The game has rules, breaking these rules is not an accomplishment, it is at best a house rule. The GM can decree whatever the GM wants, but know that those are house rules, and inspire no respect or awe out of this group of nit picking sadistic cynics. |
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Feb 23 2005, 05:59 AM
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#57
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-March 04 From: The Grizzly Grunion, in a VIP room. Member No.: 6,191 |
Ok, then. Let's see you roll for teleportation. |
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Feb 23 2005, 06:12 AM
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#58
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 608 Joined: 9-July 02 From: California Member No.: 2,955 |
So, you get one to one hundred of these per run? Your team must fuck up a lot in that case, the book only allows for one per character, at the cost of all (the much harder to earn kind) karma.
Actually, the way you write... |
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Feb 23 2005, 06:26 AM
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#59
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Part of the appeal of the Shadowrun Sorcery system is precisely the fact that it's a science and an art. It's not a panacea or a deus ex machina... it has rules that govern it and apply universally. While said rules are often expanded and discussed in various sourcebooks, the key element of Shadowrun magic is that it follows an internal consistency that lends itself to a more realistic interpretation of magic... something that is almost necessary in a near-future game that hinges on verisimilitude. You are using a house rule magic system. That's okay. But it's not Shadowrun Sorcery. Granted, there are other ways of representing magic other than spells (Spirits, metaplanes, those funky places in Australia come to mind). But a "Teleport spell" just breaks the rules, without any thought of the negative consequences. If you have it, odds are a corporation has it as well. Leave a ritual sample behind, and they can just retrieve you at their whim, or teleport to your location, whichever is more convenient for your version of reality. Corporations wouldn't need Shadowrunners... they just would send in Strike Teams, and if they got in trouble, they can teleport out. Or teleport in, steal the goods, teleport out (you can't ward everything). It becomes less of a game of Shadowrun and more like Stargate or Star Trek. |
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Feb 23 2005, 06:29 AM
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#60
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
so, it's unrealistic to you, because it's too realistic? maybe you should go back to raving wildly, instead of trying to use actual logic. stick to what you're good at, y'know?
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Feb 23 2005, 06:47 AM
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#61
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
Ha! I had a PC who was trying to unravel the mystery of teleportation. It was great. He spent all his downtime working on this, piecing together obscure bits of lore, read huge theoretical physics textbooks. He was actually considered downright mad by most of the people he talked to. It consumed him.
But alas, when he finally stumbled upon the secret, he hadn't fully worked out the formula. We still wonder whatever happened to that guy... But I'd say teleportation has a place in any game =) But maybe that's because we had the good, entertaining experience with it above. |
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Feb 23 2005, 06:59 AM
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#62
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
Never actually did this, but my GM related a tale of his group seeking an ancient mage who had discovered the secret of teleportation. After more than two years (real time) of seeking him, they finally found him on one of the planes and asked him how he unravelled the secret of teleportation. After he demonstrated the secret, the players all thumped their heads on the table in unison at how obvious it was and how they had been duped. For, you see, they had just discovered the inventor of the wagon.
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Feb 23 2005, 07:24 AM
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#63
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I personally prefer searching to unravel the mysteries of teleportation when such is truly not possible.
~J |
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Feb 23 2005, 08:17 AM
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#64
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
Weredigo, it's not that this board is a bunch of crusty rules lawyers who snarl at anything that isn't canon. House rules are frequently brought up, debated, and refined by other posters.
But this is a community like any other - it has certain unwritten rules that most people eventually pick up. Let me give you a head start on that: First of all, it's considered polite, when talking about rules, to clearly state when you are using or applying a house rule. Generally, you can say "My house rule is that..." or "In my game, I run it this way...", or something like that. Your GM may have used the term "On my board", but as you may have noticed, that term is not used by anyone else here, so it makes it harder for people to see that you are talking about house rules. There are two reasons we do this. First of all, without having the common set of rules as at least a starting point, it's really hard to follow what someone is trying to say (the whole "rolling percentiles for Karma" thing illustrates this). Secondly, we do get a lot of newbies on the boards, who are trying to figure out the rules, and when people talk about house rules as if they were regular rules, it can wind up really confusing them. Second of all, when you post ideas, people will nitpick them. It's not malicious - if you post an idea, you should expect feedback. Some people put up ideas as a "here's something you can use in your campaign, take it or leave it" thing, but most people put ideas up to be checked for anything game-breaking or unbalancing about them. So if you post an idea, and don't let people know that it's part of your personal set of house rules, they will be distracted by what seems, with the limited information they have been given, to be a game-breaking idea. Like the deal with the djinn. Stats of 20 might mean something different in your game - in the canon rules, 20 is the kind of stat you would expect on a great dragon. But if the other posters aren't told anything more - like, maybe you multiply all stats by 3 for everything - then they will be focused mainly on the perceived "imbalance" rather than on the meat of the idea itself. Hope this was helpful! :) |
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Feb 23 2005, 08:54 AM
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#65
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 28-January 05 From: Phoenix, Arizona Member No.: 7,030 |
It has helped an itsy bit, and I have tried the "In my game", and I do appreciate constructive criticism and good advice. However some responses have been out right Malicious, Rude, and not very well thought out. If the Idea posted is gonna be nitpicked, fine, given a "House Rule" explanation or a canon way that it could fit. My main problem is when people constantly just berate the idea. So it's not part of Shadowrun the way you see it, so look at it from a few different perspectives. Or if I'm just gonna be treated like a Raving Looney around here then change my status to Raving Looney so everyone knows to take what I say with a grain (or entier shaker) of salt. To call someone a Fool, is to be a Fool.
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Feb 23 2005, 09:22 AM
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#66
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Do not confuse malice with bluntness. Simply because I find this thread whiny, pretentious, and confoundingly senseless does not mean I bear you any real malice, and likewise, I doubt any of the people who find your houserules insane and inappropriate really hate you or wish you any real harm. But you damn well better be ready for people around here to state openly their opinions. Just because it's Shadowrun how you see it doesn't mean anyone else has to like it.
And only a fool would say such an egregiously foolish thing. |
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Feb 23 2005, 09:25 AM
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#67
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Give us some examples of these 'out right Malicious, Rude, and not very well thought out' responses instead of just throwing vague accusations around. |
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Feb 23 2005, 09:48 AM
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#68
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Right, but see, this is the part of the conversion wherein your madness is revealed in all its lunatic glory. In the interest of clarifying my quoted-post to the best of my ability, I shall not merely respond with paragraphs and smilies as is the custom "on your board," but with a neatly laid out and lovingly crafted list. Behold: a chain of events. One -- You say Teleportation exists in your game. Two -- It is pointed out to you that Teleportation doesn't exist in official Shadowrun rules, and is, in fact, clearly stated outright (in text, in "ooc" text, not just some character's rambling first person monologue) as being impossible. Three -- You off-handedly dismiss the impossibility of Teleportation as "a house rule" that no one told you about. Four -- I clear up the "house rule" term for you, since you apparently have wholly lost all sense of logic, and are declaring that the canon material is a house rule, and your raving delusions are canon. This is, by the by, completely backwards thinking. Five -- You quote my clarification and reply to it full of delusional grandeur and the fighting American spirit, denying the existance of the word "impossible" in a rousing Superman speech about how, with gumption, elbow grease, and vitamins, there's nothing man-kind can't do. You prove the truth of your words by capitalizing some of them apparently at random, leaving all of us no doubt as to the expired nature of your medication. Six -- Nanoseconds after reading the post I mention as point five, I realize you have missed the point completely. "Teleportation is impossible in a canon Shadowrun game" is a simple statement of fact. To ignore the "in a canon Shadowrun game" part is you wallowing in delusion and purposefully misreading the statement, in order to then defiantly place your maniacal gaming group on some pedestal for attaining the impossible, instead of accepting the fact they are using a house rule. The point of my post was to clarify that, to explain that you were using a house rule, and nothing more. Instead, fantastically, you somehow turned my proclamations of impossibility into some sort of challenge, then proclaimed your group above such mortal concerns as "rules" and "rulebooks" and "reason," instead of (once again) admitting it's just a house rule. Seven -- Wholly unrelated to the rest of the chain of events, but I think I smell some bullshit when you brag on how long your GM has been playing. I'm curious as to what you mean by "his teens" because the claim you make about his age, and how long he's been playing (again, dependent upon "his teens" and what that means), he must be Rob Boyle or something, 'cause he started playing Shadowrun before anything was published. Eight -- I admit I'm just continuing with the numbers trend, again, but this one's related to Seven. I think it's lame to try and brag about how long you've been playing Shadowrun. I think it's lamer to brag about how long your GM has. That's like not only arguing that your dad could beat up my dad, but also/instead twisting and warping the "boast" by just saying "Nyah nyah, my dad's older than your dad." The length of someone's experience with a gaming system has little to do (as is apparent with the quality of your games as you describe them to us) with the quality of that gaming experience -- and the length of someone beside your own gaming experience is even less relevent to the defense of your delusional ways. And, lo, sirrah. My post may be seen as "rude," but I doubt you can make a "not well thought out" charge stick. Feel free to reply at your leisure. I'm at work, and bored. |
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Feb 23 2005, 09:53 AM
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#69
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Target Group: Members Posts: 71 Joined: 2-February 05 From: Greensboro, NC Member No.: 7,046 |
and people wonder why the term "owned" is used on messageboards...
:rotfl: |
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Feb 23 2005, 09:55 AM
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#70
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
:notworthy:
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Feb 23 2005, 03:28 PM
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#71
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 30-January 04 Member No.: 6,043 |
I dunno, that might've been a full-blown "pwning."
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Feb 23 2005, 04:36 PM
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#72
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
We weren't confused, you just never told us what you were doing before. Its no big deal. Your "board", your rules. If you like the SR setting and not the Karma rules, groovy. Just don't expect us to know how you set your Karma awards and balance the costs without telling us. And personally, I don't care if physics is suspended in your world either, that is your biz. |
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Feb 23 2005, 04:37 PM
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#73
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
Critias, very nice. Truly. I'm impressed. We are not worthy.
Digo. No matter what house rules you use, if it goes completely counter to cannon, its going to get a LOT of flak. Especally when you follow it up with something so left field as your super-modified psudo karma rules. |
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Feb 23 2005, 05:25 PM
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#74
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
Weredigo,
You obviously enjoy gaming, and your crew seems to enjoy the hybrid/house ruled version of SR that you place before them. But you couldn't argue your way out of a paper bag. Don't stop trying, just get better. Your ideas are good and interesting, but don't expect us to kiss your ass for having them. Take our responses with as much salt as required. Blow off the jackasses and take the stuff that helps to heart. That being said, every thread you have started has caught my interest. I may disagree with you, and I may have to work pretty hard to follow your arguments, but I read them. |
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Feb 23 2005, 05:54 PM
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#75
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
:notworthy: |
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