Sniper... or not?, annoying player Options

[Arethusa]

Yeah, and given the volatility of suspended bacteria in transportable state intended for munitions diffusion, probably both safer and more reliable.

[kevyn668]

[mfb]

there aren't any strains of FAB that are really all that useful for direct use against single magical threats. i mean, sure, if you pop a force 10 cloud at a mage, he'll lose 1 magic point every few hours, but there aren't many cases where a timeframe like that is useful at all, unless you're talking about razing all magical activity in a large area.

[Westiex]

[Arethusa]

Or, you know, don't resort to asinine contrivances to stop sniping.

[mfb]

it's not the sniping that i think is problematic. it's the part where he's using a sniper rifle in non-sniping rolls. like, y'know, close combat.

[Charon]

[kevyn668]

[mfb]

the problem, really, is that sniper rifles in SR are ridiculously overpowered. there wouldn't be a problem with them, if they did 9S. instead, nooooo, sniper rifles are the friggin' katanas of gunplay, so they do jesus goddamn christ D.

and, honestly? for the precision you get from a rifle that's designed for sniping, i don't think the frailty rules used for the Ranger are a bad idea to slap on all "sniper rifles".

[Arethusa]

This is actually something i brought up years ago when I was first introduced to SR; specifically, pistols, SMGs, carbines, etc see none of their real benefits in close quarters while rifles, sniper rifles, assault cannons, etc see none of their very real disadvantages. There is nothing (unless you count that one silly sniper rifle that can't be so much as dragged through combat without falling apart) in the rules that ever covers this.

My solution at the time, which eventually became a part of Canon Revision (which never materialized thanks to real life and lack of interest, but run a search if you're morbidly curious), was to apply specific sets of modifiers in close quarters (defined as ranges < 10m). Pistols got -1 TN, SMGs and short carbines got +0, rifles got +1, long rifles (like sniper rifles) got +2, and heavy things like an assault cannon clocked in at +3 and up at GM discretion. There were other modifiers that got more specific, but that covers the most pertinent stuff. I was never exactly happy with it, but I still feel it's the best solution ever reached (and, as far as I've seen, possible without a major reworking of the current ruleset).

[mfb]

yeah, i've discussed the same idea myself. if there's an SR4, something like that ought to go in it. it'll come right after the sane shotgun spread rules.

[Arethusa]

[kevyn668]

I may have missed it but which rifle does the character in question use?

[mfb]

sure, nothing made for killing is that fragile. what might be worth considering is, instead of raising the TN for shots made with the weapon, just reduce the rifle's range to that of a normal hunting rifle until it's re-tuned.

[Crusher Bob]

The real problem is that an Alpha loaded with EX rounds and firing a burst does 13S, the sniper rifle firing a single normal round does 14S. The Alpha is good for 14 (?) bursts, the WA-2000 knock off hold 10 single rounds so there's hardly any loss of readly ammunition capacity.

And a magazine of 42 EX rounds for the Alpha costs 630 Y (!) on the street...

[toturi]

Factor in the added difficulty in dodging a burst as opposed to a single shot. I do not think that recoil should come into play, since I think it is a reasonable assumption that recoil compensation should be more than sufficient.

[Arethusa]

+1 dodge TNs is nice, but not usually that significant. Not enough to truly save the Alpha in that comparison, anyway.

[Crusher Bob]

hmm, lemme run some numbers:

iirc, dodging is norammly TN 4 with a +1 for bursts?

Assuming:

Body 4 runner with 6/4 armor
and has 6 CP available

Assuming our shooter (in either case, gets 4 successes)

Against the Alpha, they get 2 successes and resist 7D with body.

Against the Sniper Rfile (firing normal ammo)
They get 3 successes and resist 8S

I guess it's worth something after all...

[Johnson]

You have to remember that when being Sniped at you don't get to role dodge, its a full element surprise, so unless you have very good body guards. But Sniping is aspected to that only.

If you are going for close quarter assasination, it personal very close and personal and a chance of attrition to take its toll.

In both cases you are highly specialized.

Sniper
Right place right time, make every shot count.

Up colse and personal.

Right place right time, know the ground area you are fighting on and make it work for you. Every attack has to count.

[toturi]

You don't really use a Assault Rifle to snipe, you use a Sniper Rifle.

[Crusher Bob]

In that particular comparison, we were comparing the CQB abilities of the Alpha and the Sniper rifle. Almost any gun can kill someone with no combat pool available:

Sample: 22 LR Sport Rifle (doing 6L)

Sniping runner in the above example:

(Body 4, 6 Armor)

Our sniper is rolling 8 dice at TN 2, getting 7 successes.

Our target is rolling 4 dice against target number 2, and gets 3 successes, still taking a serious wound.

Had the sniper been using any sort of 'real gun' or had just a bit more skill (so more CP could be used on the shot) mr runner would be busy bleeding to death already.

[Johnson]

[Arethusa]

[Weredigo]

[Arethusa]

Well, I'm expecting you get to get slammed for this too, but I just don't care enough to do it myself.