 Sniper... or not?, annoying player |
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 Feb 24 2005, 08:20 AM
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#76
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 541 Joined: 2-August 04 From: South Africa Member No.: 6,531  |
Game Mechanics. Low skill requires high calibre Rifle for successful use while high skill allows the successful use of low calibre rifle |
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Feb 24 2005, 08:50 AM
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#77
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690 |
At least that would be a proactive method to try, instead of the typical fire at the monster until you're gun goes dry, then throw it down to the floor and throw your hands up as the camera does a tight zoom on your face (sorry, I've been on a z-grade movie binge). Someone's take on FAB bullets (or some other way to smite spirits with firearms) seems to come up every few months, and I've yet to see anything that works with balanced consistancy. |
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Feb 24 2005, 08:53 AM
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#78
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
Saying the little prayer: "free pizza for the GM if this works" seems to be pretty effective.
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Feb 24 2005, 09:25 AM
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#79
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
There's no good reason to use anything but a high-powered rifle, though, no matter how high your skill is. Ammunition weight and cost, weapon weight, concealability and maneuverability, aural signature of firing -- none of these change. By going from Sniper Rifles to Sporting Rifles you get off cheaper, but you also lose a lot of your ability to affect armored vehicles or to engage targets at very long ranges, neither of which you skill can really compensate for.
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Feb 24 2005, 09:31 AM
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#80
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Easier to explain at the airport?
~J |
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Feb 24 2005, 09:53 AM
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#81
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 515 Joined: 19-January 04 Member No.: 5,992 |
That's why the Decker is your friend. Gee, I can't imagine why that metal detector didn't go off or why that suitcase only showed clothing and a shaving kit.
Of course, that'd require a very good decker friend and a rifle that you could actually hide in a suitcase. |
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Feb 24 2005, 10:08 AM
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#82
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Try taking any kind of rifle to the airport and explaining your way out of it. Maybe if you were a post-SoTA64 adept...
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Feb 24 2005, 11:22 AM
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#83
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 541 Joined: 2-August 04 From: South Africa Member No.: 6,531 |
I would expect that a good portable Snipers rifle would be able to brake down in to a suite case.
Barring the Hi calibre Drakenov. and some other military types. |
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Feb 24 2005, 12:45 PM
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#84
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
In SR, you can design any kind of rifle to allow breaking it down into a suitcase. The only Rifle (that is, a Rifle that you shoot with the Rifles skill) that I'm aware of (that appears in the books) that can break down is the Ranger Arms SM-3, which is presumably chambered for a very powerful round, since it does far more damage than a Heavy Machine Gun.
Most RL sniper rifles are in fact not capable of being broken down into small bits. Several are, but especially in the military it's quite rare (which, supposedly, is why neither the Barrett M121 nor the Walther MA-2100 can do this -- or that's the logic I'll happily use anyway). The SVD Dragunov (alt link) is not of a particularly powerful caliber. It is chambered for the 7.62x54mmR, which is more or less equivalent of the 7.62x51mm NATO caliber used in many/most western sniper rifles and MMGs. It is certainly more powerful than assault rifles and the kind, but would reasonably stand at around a Damage Code of 9S in SR (since it is basically a Sporting Rifle and GPMG/MMG caliber). "Large caliber" in sniper rifles these days usually refers to specialist weapons meant for extremely long range sniping or, more commonly, anti-material work, in calibers such as the US .50BMG/12.7x99mm or the Russian 12.7x108mm, both of which generate 3-4 times as much kinetic energy at the muzzle as the 7.62s mentioned above. |
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Feb 24 2005, 03:43 PM
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#85
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Target Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 23-September 04 Member No.: 6,698 |
Many people asked for his equipment.
I don't have his papers here, but it's more or less like this: He has the only sniper rifle in the book (Ranger Arms I believe) - It has a bipod, and is smartlinked and scoped (thanks for the smartlink-scope thing, I didn't know it) - thermographic vision - he recently got vision magnification - he has a camo suit (woods), but someone assured me camo suits can be overpainted as many times as you want He has no B/R skills, but it's something I didn't think of... So next time I'll talk to him about it, or either let his weapon rust. He got the weapon trough some maffia connection in Antwerp (UNL). He always carries it in corporate looking briefcase (a large one), so it is concealed. I make very sure he can never carry it trough detectors. To make the characters, I used the rules in the sr3. Someone pointed out the problem might be with the GM and the player... Well, this is my first time GM'ing seriously... ever. For a new game. I've read dumpshock since a while, and I really feel I'm getting better tough. Hopefully :grinbig: Thanks, Brambles |
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Feb 24 2005, 04:29 PM
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#86
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 334 Joined: 17-November 03 From: Texas Member No.: 5,828 |
You may have given him an advantage of which you were unaware. The availability for the Ranger Arms SM3 is 12/7 days. So he can't start with it (Starting characters can't have avail > 8, unless you house rule that part), and getting ahold of one before your first run can be tough, TN 12, 7 day wait, and base price of 16000, before the fixer tries to negotiate with you. That thing should be a PRIZED posession .. it cost him more than a vehicle! I don't think he'll take many chances with it when he realizes how much time, effort, and money it will take to replace. If he will, make the danger of losing it or having it fail very real if he mistreats it. Like if an officer finds it ... maybe that Lonestar beat cop has a kid with a disease, and the ~8 grand he can get for the rifle sounds better than getting a free arrest ... and he'll just take it from you.
It sucks to forget something during chargen and then have an overpowered character running around with that stuff indefinately. This would give you a chance to renew the balance ... generate a scenario when he needs to get it back that makes it just a *little* easier to get, to throw him a bone for his lost 4k in starting resources. This assumes that you unintentionally allowed him to have the weapon in the first place. If you did it on purpose, none of that will really apply. If that's the case, then take more of the other suggestions on this thread, especially applying every modifier that is appropriate to the situation. Do this for bad guys, too, and for every combatant, not just the sniper. It makes for more cinematic firefights, anyway. |
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Feb 24 2005, 04:37 PM
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#87
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
It is always good to brainstorm. I like the use of cover after the first shot and counterstrike force called in ASAP.
Does the Smartlink 2 + rangefinder combo stack? |
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Feb 24 2005, 04:49 PM
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#88
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
If the rifle is the one from the SR3 basic book, then make sure you start using the rules for it coming out of alignment when used for anything more vigorous than long-range sniping. That thing has been designed to be next to useless in close quarter combat. As a result, the lack of a B/R skill should hurt him enough just when it comes to getting it back into alignment - no need really to go overboard and actually force the use of the B/R skill just to clean the weapon properly and make sure it doesn't rust. (any more than you need Car B/R to change a tire or check the oil - the skill lets you build your own weapon from scratch with the right tools and equipment, it's not necessarily out of character for most of runners not to have it) |
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Feb 24 2005, 05:14 PM
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#89
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,011 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 7,087 |
There's no good reason if you assume a sniper rifle is as easy to acquire and replace as a hunting rifle. And as hard to trace. Which it is not. One time a player used a sniper rifle in a mission, he had to abandon it on the ground to make good his escape (hard to mingle in a crowd with a rifle of any kind). He winced when it really sank in how much his profit margin would shrink if he replaced his rifle... He made an half-baked attempt to pass the lost rifle as a mission cost and thus spread the joy amongst the group. But everyone disagreed that it was necessary to use the sniper rifle in the first place when he could have covered them with an AR or a hunting rifle. Roughly translated from french, the main argument from the loudest mouthed player was : "I'm not giving you an extra 4000$ just because you're too much of a snob to use a a cheaper gun. You only had to shoot two guards and then cover our escape, for crying out loud! I warned you, you decided to be a moron, now suck it up." That PC was especially angry because he had specifically warned the sniper against overkill and was ignored. Eh. Nowadays whenever that player buys a sniper, it's always a Ranger-arms becacause of the better odds of saving the weapon during the escape if you have time to dismantle it and put it back in the case. Otherwise, he has accepted the principle of using appropriate tools for the jobs. In SR terms, these are tools that will do the job without leaving you broke when you drop them on the ground and cut your losses. Same reasoning apply to LAW versus missile launcher. Why use LAW when you can use a missile launcher? Because if it's good enough to do the job, it saves you a fortune over any other missile alternative! The PC who was warning the sniper PC about overkill in the earlier example had learned his lesson in just that kind of missile scenario (Which is why I think he was needlessly harsh with the sniper player considering he did exactly that kind of mistake himself earlier in his 'career'). PS : Concerning the PC who had to drop his sniper rifle, if it had been a very high profile hit that demanded retaliation, I could have used the rifle to put some heat on the PC. While there are hundred of millions of hunting rifle, there are only thousands sniper rifle. Track down the producer, figure out how some sniper rifle could have ended up in the balck market... It's a far shot but it's very conceivable that law enforcement could trace the weapon up to the player's dealer. The more ressources are put on the case, the more likely it becomes. IMO, anyway. With a Hunting rifle, though, I could assume he would have been untraceable through the weapon without stretching suspension of disbelief. |
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Feb 24 2005, 05:39 PM
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#90
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
yes, but the alpha isn't five feet long, the power of its bursts and EX ammo don't count against immunity: normal weapons, vehicle armor, or hardened armor, its range is significantly shorter, and it imposes a +1 TN per burst for recoil in the default configuration. there are lots of reasons why, in close combat, the alpha should be more useful (in terms of real-world application) and less unbalancing (in terms of game mechanics) than a sniper rifle. |
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Feb 24 2005, 05:43 PM
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#91
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Can the sniper rifle perform suppressive fire?
~J |
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Feb 24 2005, 06:04 PM
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#92
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
we call the ones that can "HMGs". hoo, i kill me. seriously, though, i'm not sure what you're trying to say.
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Feb 24 2005, 06:05 PM
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#93
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I suppose it wasn't clear; that was a rhetorical question. You have a point, though :)
~J |
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Feb 24 2005, 06:06 PM
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#94
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
you post, ninja-fast, before i edit!
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Feb 24 2005, 06:06 PM
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#95
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 30-January 04 Member No.: 6,043 |
Only if it's an FA sniper rifle. (Egah!)
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Feb 24 2005, 06:21 PM
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#96
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
That is the shortest full auto burst ever....
bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-click. :D |
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Feb 24 2005, 06:43 PM
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#97
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Dragunov's have a full auto setting, IRL.
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Feb 24 2005, 06:44 PM
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#98
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 30-January 04 Member No.: 6,043 |
Can they accept some sort of much larger mag? |
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Feb 24 2005, 07:06 PM
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#99
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
I imagine it's possible.
As for automatic sniping in general, the sniper rifles Counter-Strike made famous (SG550 and G3/SG1) may be nothing like their ingame counterparts, but they also come in FA varieties. Despite what computer games say, this can actually be useful in the right setting (ironically, I think The Bourne Identity shows this fairly well), though I wouldn't personally make a habit out of it. |
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Feb 24 2005, 08:09 PM
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#100
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
yeah. "anything that's worth shooting once is worth shooting twice" trumps "one shot, one kill" every time.
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