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> essentials for a B&E character
GlassJaw
post Feb 25 2005, 03:22 AM
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I'm thinking about playing a B&E-type character for an upcoming campaign but I haven't really gone that route before. I'm thinking about playing an adept but that could change.

Regardless of the archetype, what are some essentials (attributes, skills, edges/flaws, adept powers, cyber/bioware, gear, etc) to consider when putting together this type of character?
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Kanada Ten
post Feb 25 2005, 03:25 AM
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Microscopic Vision.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Feb 25 2005, 03:32 AM
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Chemistry, demolitions, and a quickened magic fingers spell.
Unless you mean for stealthy intrusions, in which case you will want stealth, electronics (B/R too/instead maybe), lockpicking, and enough negotiations (lie blatantly) to at least confuse the guard who gets a lucky 18 on his 3 dice perception test at exactly the wrong time.
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Smiley
post Feb 25 2005, 03:37 AM
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If you're going the Adept route, keep all of the above and add in some Traceless Walk, a few improved abilities, and a lot of masking.
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jklst14
post Feb 25 2005, 04:05 AM
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Do you have SOTA 2063? There is lots of useful information in there for B&E characters.

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fistandantilus4....
post Feb 25 2005, 04:10 AM
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Equipment:
Laser cutter (bye bye armored glass)
ultrasound emitter/detector (for ultrasound systems)
those nifty thermal suits for thermographic systems
goggles to detect UV (for the trip wires and special lighiting systems)
NO tailored pheromones (after SOTA 63, the detectors are gonna be everywhere)
binocualrs (scope the place out first, duh)
stealth grapple line (burn your rope/virdges behind you)
minicams (watch your back, transmit to vidlink)
GLOVES!
gecko tape gloves (those things are great!)
some bleach (spray down any blood you happen to drop)
the obvious electrical tools for maglocks
maglock passkeys!
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hahnsoo
post Feb 25 2005, 04:18 AM
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Not an all-inclusive list:

B&E specialists (Awakened or not, doesn't matter much) should probably have high priority in skills, with an emphasis on Stealth (bread and butter), Electronics AND Electronics B/R (specializing in Security Devices, possibly), Athletics (for the occasional sprint, climb, jump, etc.), Security Design Knowledge Skill, and Security Procedures Knowledge Skill. Some passing knowledge in Biotech could be helpful to get past Biometrics.

The social savvy B&E should also include Disguise, Negotiation (Fast Talk), Etiquette, and perhaps knowledge skill in Corporate Culture and/or Psychology.

The tech savvy B&E should also include Computer Skill, cybereye mods for Microscopic Vision, Thermo, Ultrasound and Electronic/Optical Magnification, Orientation System/GPS, with additional toys out the wazoo (Maglock Passkey, Sequencer, Cellular Handprint Scanner, Voice Recorders). The task pool bonuses given by the Encephalon and Cerebral Booster, while pricey, add to your all-important Electronics tests. I like to include Skillwires on top of all this with a Chipjack Expert Driver, to cover the occasional hole in my skillset (getaway vehicles and such). Another handy (but overlooked) bioware is Clean Metabolism.

The adept B&E should include improved ability in the appropriate skills, magical senses to replace the above cyberware modifications, perhaps going the Invisible or Social Way route. Traceless Walk/Gliding work well for pressure floors.

The mage B&E should probably have Improved Invisibility and/or Camo, Physical Mask, Silence/Stealth, and perhaps Control Thoughts/Emotions to socially engineer situations.

And don't dismiss the value of a high Demolitions and Chemistry skill. Between the two of them, you can get past a lot of obstacles.
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Wireknight
post Feb 25 2005, 04:25 AM
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As far as adept powers go, here are a few that give you greater access and ease of egress:

Improved Stealth lets you get in and out without being as easily detected. Useful for detecting and avoiding security systems and fooling patrols.

Improved Athletics lets you jump, run, and climb better. Useful for physical security measures like high walls and patrolled areas.

Great Leap might help you jump a fence that you'd otherwise have to waste precious time climbing, or might allow you to make a second(or third) floor entry without resorting to grappling equipment.

Free Fall can help if you need to get out quickly, and your only exit involves a multiple-story fall.

Traceless Walk is utterly essential for avoiding detection while doing things like jumping fences, scaling walls, and the like. Being able to do these things does not make a B&E specialist. Being able to do these things silently does.

Wallrunning can be handy to avoid the climbing/jumping scenario entirely, since you can just use nearby surfaces to scale upward, so long as you can end up on a flat surface.

The social powers, as well as funky things like facial sculpt and pigmentation alteration, can help you with the social engineering aspect of a professional thief. Improved senses, like low-light, telescopic vision, and microscopic vision, can be handy. Nimble fingers is useful for picking locks and pockets. Motion sense is handy for detecting living guards around corners and on other floors.

I mean, there are tons of adept powers useful for breaking and entering, probably more than you'll ever really be able to purchase. Stealthy stuff has always been the forte of the adept.
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TeOdio
post Feb 25 2005, 04:30 AM
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And when the drek hit's the fan, as it will assuredly do sometimes, make sure you have a silenced (or quite) weapon. It probably won't stop the guard w/ the headware radio from sending out an alarm, but for the slag that has to reach for a radio and call in help, it could buy you a few more minutes before the rest of the guard detail realizes Johnny ain't reporting in.
:nuyen: :nuyen: :nuyen:
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jklst14
post Feb 25 2005, 04:31 AM
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An automatic lockpicker. It's cheap and handy in case you run into an old fashioned lock. Or if you have extra skill points, you can get the actual lockpicking skill.

An electronics toolkit

A kevlar/armored blanket that can be draped over fences topped with barbed wire.

Pretty much any cyberware that improves perception such as spatial recognizers. Reflex recorders and balance augmentors are good too.
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fistandantilus4....
post Feb 25 2005, 04:52 AM
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How' bout the knowledge skill alertness that works as a complementary skill to perception tests.
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Capt. Dave
post Feb 25 2005, 05:02 AM
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QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
How' bout the knowledge skill alertness that works as a complementary skill to perception tests.

I may be wrong, but can't stealth be used in that regard?
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fistandantilus4....
post Feb 25 2005, 05:05 AM
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Well I do know that it specifically lists "alertness" under knowledge skills as an example, acting as a comp skill for it in SR3. I don't think stealth is listed that way in the rules, although it does make sense. If you know where to hide, you know where to look. Have to check on that. Sure make my players happy. Should probably make them find it on their own though.
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Tziluthi
post Feb 25 2005, 05:11 AM
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Yeah, I think that's a stealth specialty or something. But you can definitely use steath as a complementry skill for perception rolls.
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Fortune
post Feb 25 2005, 05:13 AM
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Alertness is a specialization of the Stealth skill, which is an Active Skill. AFAIK, there is no Alertness Knowledge Skill in SR3 (or any other edition since there are no designated Knowledge Skills in other editions).
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hahnsoo
post Feb 25 2005, 05:15 AM
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I would like to say that B&E isn't necessarily stealth. It's just breaking and entering; whatever it takes to get to your objective, accomplish your objective, and make it out alive is a valid scheme. While stealth is probably the best option for most of the B&E involved in shadowrunning, knowing when to go loud and at what point you throw stealth out the window is essential to successful B&E... the choices you make are augmented by the situation, and a B&E specialist will have as many choices as possible at their disposal. A maglock can easily be passed by a maglock passkey or by a shaped charge explosive. Barbed wire can be bypassed by cutting it (might trip sensors if it is capacitance wire) or by lugging around an armored blankie, or using a nightglider. Another choice is having both lethal and non-lethal ways of taking out or duping security guards... you want the light stuff that won't trip a biomonitor (i.e. won't kill them) like blackjacks, squirts/darts, and subduing combat and you want the heavy stuff to take out threats in rapid succession.

On another subject: Chemistry. It's not just a complementary skill for Demolitions. All sorts of fun chemicals are helpful in B&E. Slip Spray (or an equivalent lubricant) is relatively easy to make and makes pursuit by quadrupeds and bipeds very difficult, for example.
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fistandantilus4....
post Feb 25 2005, 05:22 AM
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QUOTE (Fortune)
Alertness is a specialization of the Stealth skill, which is an Active Skill. AFAIK, there is no Alertness Knowledge Skill in SR3 (or any other edition since there are no designated Knowledge Skills in other editions).

I'll check my books when I get home and get back to ya' on that. Pretty sure I saw it , because I thought it was a good idea. I'll let you know when I get a page #, I've been wrong before (honest :P )
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hahnsoo
post Feb 25 2005, 05:25 AM
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QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
QUOTE (Fortune @ Feb 25 2005, 12:13 AM)
Alertness is a specialization of the Stealth skill, which is an Active Skill. AFAIK, there is no Alertness Knowledge Skill in SR3 (or any other edition since there are no designated Knowledge Skills in other editions).

I'll check my books when I get home and get back to ya' on that. Pretty sure I saw it , because I thought it was a good idea. I'll let you know when I get a page #, I've been wrong before (honest :P )

It's on page 95 and 96 of SR3 BBB. It's RIGHT before the section on Knowledge skills, which may have led to the confusion. Alertness is a Specialization of Stealth used as a complementary skill for Perception tests to detect Hiding/Sneaking characters.
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fistandantilus4....
post Feb 25 2005, 05:27 AM
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Ahh, that makes sense. cool. Thanks, now I don't have to page flip and midnight while my wife's trying to sleep. She'll thank you for that!
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Johnson
post Feb 25 2005, 07:50 AM
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Well it looks as you have covered pre an post sota 63. So there are many possiblities its all left to the imagination now.
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GlassJaw
post Feb 25 2005, 06:25 PM
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Would anyone be so kind as to check out this build I've been working on:
CODE

Ork Adept

B - 7
Q - 6
S - 7
C - 2
I - 5
W - 5

Flaws:
Bad Karma (subject to change)

Skills:
Athletics - 6
Bike - 2
Electronics/Maglocks - 3/5
Electronics B/R/Security Systems - 3/5
Etiquette/Street - 1/3
Projectile Weapons/Pull Bows - 5/7
Stealth - 6
Unarmed Combat - 6

English - 5/2
Japanese - 2/0
Area Knowledge (some place) - 4
Meditation - 5
Japanese Culture - 2
Gang Turf - 5
Security Procedures -54
Yakuza Territory - 4

Powers:

Imp Reflexes 1
Quick Draw
Traceless Walk
Imp Senses: Microscopic Vision, Sound Filter 5, Thermo Vision, Vision Mag 3
Imp Skill/Stealth 2
Imp Skill/Unarmed Combat 2
Imp Skill/Proj Weapons 1


Any thoughts so far?
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Fortune
post Feb 25 2005, 06:31 PM
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Seems to me to be only 117 Build Points (Attributes = 58, Skills = 34, Adept = 25, Ork = 5, Flaw = -5). I assume you are using Build Points, as your Edge and Flaws don't cancel each other out ( because you have no Edges :D). Of course, you have no Resourses, so that might factor into things.

Oh, and Bad Karma for a Metahuman really sucks! :eek:
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hahnsoo
post Feb 25 2005, 07:03 PM
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Bows, while soundless (not necessarily stealthy as it causes a ton of tissue damage and is easier to see), can be highly impractical for the average B&E run due to their size and lack of concealability. However, it sounds like you've decided against the "social engineering" route with the 2 Charisma and no social skills, so this shouldn't matter too much. I would honestly strongly consider increasing your Electronics (the B/R looks fine) skill and docking points out of your combat or Athletics skills. High Unarmed combat skill is great for Subduing Combat (to get opponents out of the way non-lethally), so I wouldn't change that. I find the lack of Etiquette or any other social skills a bit difficult to swallow, but that's just my playing style.

I would consider getting the Motion Sense adept power, but the power list looks pretty reasonable (if a bit too weighted toward combat for my tastes.. I'd dock 1 Unarmed and 1 Projectile for +4 Stealth, but that's just me).

What is more important is choosing your Knowledge Skills at this point. Invest in Chemistry, Security Design, Security Procedures, and you're probably all set to go.
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GlassJaw
post Feb 25 2005, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE
Of course, you have no Resourses, so that might factor into things.


Yeah, I haven't done gear yet but most likely will be 20,000 (5 points). I also forgot Etiquette/Street 2. Good catch. I'll fix that now.

QUOTE
Oh, and Bad Karma for a Metahuman really sucks!


Well the DM might use a house rule that metahumans don't have the increased Karma Pool cost. Regardless, it fits into my character's background so I'll probably keep it either way.
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GlassJaw
post Feb 25 2005, 07:14 PM
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Ok, I fixed a couple of things.

QUOTE
I find the lack of Etiquette or any other social skills a bit difficult to swallow, but that's just my playing style.


I forgot to add Etiquette. Another idea was to drop the Bike skill and put the points somewhere else, perhaps Negotiation.

As far as combat goes, most likely it's going to be a small group (3-4 at the most) so having some extra muscle can't hurt.

By the way, what's the deal with Chemistry? I've seen that mentioned in a few posts before.
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