 Quick Armor question, quickness and combat pool |
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 Feb 27 2005, 06:32 AM
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#1
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,088 Joined: 8-October 04 From: Dallas, TX Member No.: 6,734  |
A new character Lina created named "Boom" has 3 Quickness, and is a troll with titanium bone lacing (2/1 Armor), Orthoskin 3 (1/2 Armor) and then has armed clothing (3/2) + Lined Coat (total external armor 5/2 I believe).
Now according to the rules, the total armor is 8/5 I believe. now, according to armor and combat pool rules (SR3 pg. 285) He is -3 dice in his combat pool. However, do the bone lacing and orthoskin count in any way towards the layering armor rules? I initially have ruled that it didn't, but I'm curious what the bookninjas think. If it does count then this character can't move (he is over 3 points over his quickness, which means his movement is negative) If it doesn't then he can barely move (1x3 movement...heh) Sorry if this has been answered in a different thread, just point me at it or answer this question, whichever is easier. |
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Feb 27 2005, 06:38 AM
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#2
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-March 04 From: The Grizzly Grunion, in a VIP room. Member No.: 6,191 |
I would just count the weight, not the armor rating. Add whatever weight the augments give towards the encumberance, but towards the quickness penalties... Just extermal armor.
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Feb 27 2005, 06:38 AM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 29-January 05 Member No.: 7,033 |
i agree with smiley, the armor he gets from cyberware hes purchased not only with money but essence also its a part of him, external armor isnt.
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Feb 27 2005, 06:38 AM
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#4
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Don't forget the penalty also gives +TNs to quickness linked skills. That's sort of major in most cases.
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Feb 27 2005, 06:42 AM
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#5
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Only the worn armour is considered for the quickness and other related penalties. The "armour" that cybernetics provides are bonuses, not armour per se.
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Feb 27 2005, 06:59 AM
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#6
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UMS O.G. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 444 Joined: 18-May 04 Member No.: 6,335 |
Actually, the armor value would be 8/6. Honestly, you are hurting yourself bad with this one as you will have -5 quickness, +5 to all quickness related tests and have -3 to combat pool. The cyber stuff doesn't count as layers because it isn't armor. Just get a armor jacket, have the same armor and only be -1 to your combat pool with no other penalties. |
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Feb 27 2005, 07:10 AM
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#7
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
I'd suggest a vest with plates and an unarmored long coat if he wants a concealment bonus.
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Feb 27 2005, 07:39 AM
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#8
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Don't you mean [3/0]? Otherwise your numbers don't work out. Edit: Even then, the unmodified totals for the worn armor would be [7/2] - Lined Coat is [4/2] + Armored Clothing [3/0] (it'd be [7/4] if the armor ratings in your example are actually correct). Assuming the former, he'd be at -2 Combat Pool and -4 to Quickness-related stuff. The implanted armor only counts towards encumberance. |
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Feb 27 2005, 08:36 PM
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#9
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,088 Joined: 8-October 04 From: Dallas, TX Member No.: 6,734 |
I believe the armor value for worn armor is 5/2 (lined coat 4/2 + layered armor clothing which is 3/0 rounded down to 1/0)
So the consensus is the ortho/titanium shouldn't affect either the combat pool penalty or the quickness related penalties? In which case he is still walking around at 1x3 because of the armor, and -1 dice to combat pool...but at least he's mobile. Just making sure - it makes sense to me, frankly, I just wanted to poll the bookninjas to see if they agreed or not. I tend to be as canon as possible, so I want to get things right and not houserule things (with a few exceptions, but who doesn't have those, 'cept toturi?) |
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Feb 27 2005, 08:42 PM
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#10
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Yes, armor values round down, and it does not say to a minimum of 1, therefore they will round down to zero if the second piece has a 1 in a rating.
Cyber/bio do noes not count as layering, it just adds to the end total. |
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Feb 27 2005, 10:17 PM
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#11
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
That's correct. If you check my post though, you'll see that I calculating the unmodified armor totals for the purposes of determining penalties. The other point of my post was to correct the erroneous rating of the Armor Clothing that you originally listed, which seemed to be throwing some others off in their calculations.
He'd have a -2 to Combat Pool (-1 for each 2 points of unmodified armor rating exceeding Quickness ... 7 Ballistic rating exceeds Quickness 3 by 4, but no penalty from the Impact rating), and a +4 TN to Quickness-related tests. |
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Feb 27 2005, 10:48 PM
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#12
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,088 Joined: 8-October 04 From: Dallas, TX Member No.: 6,734 |
Oh I see...so technically Boom can't move? His movement is negative (3-4=!@#$!#)...plus the -4 to quickness tests and -2 die to combat pool.
Eeek. He's gotta dump the armor clothing *quick* |
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Feb 27 2005, 10:56 PM
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#13
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I'd say that it would be to a minimum of 1, so he could still move, but not very quickly.
And it's +4 to the TN for Quickness-related tests (like Firearms and Stealth). Tell him to dump the Armored Clothing and pick up some Form-Fitted Body Armor (which doesn't count towards those penalties) to go along with his Lined Coat. Then he'd have no penalties at all, and have an Armor Rating of 6/2 to boot. :) |
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Feb 27 2005, 11:49 PM
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#14
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,088 Joined: 8-October 04 From: Dallas, TX Member No.: 6,734 |
That's probably what he'll do, but he'll still have a +1 TN to quickness because I believe the lined coat is 4/2 and his Quick is 3.
Thanks for the help tho...that does clarify things and I need to educate the group now. *grin* I think everybody in there is fine...they have good armor but generally not above quickness plus the form fit. |
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Feb 28 2005, 12:45 AM
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#15
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UMS O.G. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 444 Joined: 18-May 04 Member No.: 6,335 |
You only take quickness penalties when you layer armor. A single piece will only make you lose combat pool, which in your case would be nothing.
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Feb 28 2005, 12:47 AM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 130 Joined: 25-February 05 Member No.: 7,119 |
He won't even have the quickness penalty if he goes with the FFBA. The quickness penalties only apply if he's layering armor, and FFBA says it doesn't provide layering penalties. (Don't have CC at the moment to look up the exact wording.) The only penalty that would apply would be any combat pool lost for his worn ballistic rating. [Edit] Never mind, Necro beat me to it. |
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Feb 28 2005, 01:21 AM
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#17
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,088 Joined: 8-October 04 From: Dallas, TX Member No.: 6,734 |
o_o
Thanks for the clarification. bookninjas uber alles! |
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Feb 28 2005, 04:33 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 292 Joined: 24-September 04 Member No.: 6,701 |
Clarification:
Boom doesn't have Orthoskin, but he does have Titanium Bone Lace. Strength-based encumberance is *not* a factor for him; this guy has a Strength of 12. His normal layout is Lined Coat (yes, I want the Conceal bonus) and Armor Clothing. His unmodified Combat Pool is 7d6, and he also doesn't have any Quick-based skills, though the total loss of movement is obviously bad. Short term; dump the Armor Clothing for now; get Form Fit as quick as possible. Mid-term; get my Quick to racial max of 5. Long-term (if I continue to play this char); get Muscle Augments to improve his quickness so he can get more armor... EDIT: My bad; his unmodified Combat pool is only 4d6. I mis-read the writeup. |
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Feb 28 2005, 04:57 AM
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#19
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
Remember that any long coat will give you the conceal bonus, even an unarmored one...
So you could wear form fit 4 and a vest with plates and a perfectly normal long coat... Hmm, not sure how you are getting combat pool of 7, if you have Int 4 and Will 6 and quick 3, that should only be a CP of 6... |
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Feb 28 2005, 05:27 AM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,088 Joined: 8-October 04 From: Dallas, TX Member No.: 6,734 |
Eh, I don't buy the unarmored long coat having the same conceal bonuses as an armored one. IMO the reason you get conceal bonuses is it is a bulky coat that's stiff, so it doesn't show odd bulges as easily. A normal long coat would not have that stiffness because it doesn't have the armoring. And if it DOES have that stiffening, I probably has some kind of protection, and should count.
Sorry, not going to fly in my game. |
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