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> Balistics, whats your best idea
torzzzzz
post Mar 2 2005, 12:59 PM
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I have been trawling through my post on pistols, and with it being lunchtime at work and i have nothing much to do. What are your ideas on developing new forms of bullets, munitions etc.

i quite like the idea of developing tumbling bullets and hollow bullets filled with nasty chemicals and even white phosphorous shot gun shells!

torz x 8)
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Ancient History
post Mar 2 2005, 01:01 PM
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Silver bullets would probably be a favorite.
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torzzzzz
post Mar 2 2005, 01:05 PM
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usefull for mainy reasons even if you have to melt them down for the cash!
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Sokei
post Mar 2 2005, 01:17 PM
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white phosphorous shot gun shells would basically make the gun a fire ball cannon. would suck if the wind was blowing back at you though. now WP shotgun SLUGS would be alittle better but id put a higher damage code on the close combat blast due to the higher amount of WP in the shells... but then the gun would melt too ... any solutions to melting?
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Dave
post Mar 2 2005, 01:33 PM
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QUOTE (torzzzzz)
I have been trawling through my post on pistols, and with it being lunchtime at work and i have nothing much to do. What are your ideas on developing new forms of bullets, munitions etc.

Check out the Ammo and Explosives section of my site (URL in sig), I have a couple more ideas floating about but haven't fleshed them out yet.
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Critias
post Mar 2 2005, 02:06 PM
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QUOTE (Sokei)
white phosphorous shot gun shells would basically make the gun a fire ball cannon. would suck if the wind was blowing back at you though. now WP shotgun SLUGS would be alittle better but id put a higher damage code on the close combat blast due to the higher amount of WP in the shells... but then the gun would melt too ... any solutions to melting?

Could be a potential reason to dikote your gun barrels. I have no idea how the heat given off by white phosphorous compares to the heat tolerances of dikoted materials, though.
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Crusher Bob
post Mar 2 2005, 02:01 PM
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WP burns at a relatively low temperature, however, the main problem is alot of heat is retained in your weapon. As shotgun shells are largely made out of plastic, an overheated shotgun can be very badly jammed by melted plastic. (This was one of the problems looked at in the development of the HK CAWS.)
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Aes
post Mar 2 2005, 02:07 PM
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QUOTE (torzzzzz)
i quite like the idea of developing tumbling bullets and hollow bullets filled with nasty chemicals and even white phosphorous shot gun shells!

Capsule rounds to carry chemicals like th eones you describe are available in Cannon Companion, page 38.
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nezumi
post Mar 2 2005, 03:36 PM
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I still like the pvc pipe shotgun (I think it's in cannon companion) that shoots nails and broken glass.

I'm also still waiting for the creme pie launcher. Apply penalties like the blindness flaw, plus distraction as you have to taste it. You could put drugs in like capsule rounds too, especially things like lemon meringue.
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Tarantula
post Mar 2 2005, 03:41 PM
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Remington Streetsweeper? Its not a PVC shotgun, as PVC would horribly blow apart. But, its basically a fireing pin, with a box for a gunpowder charge to get put in, then you stuff whatever bits are around you in the front, and pull the trigger.
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Endgame50
post Mar 2 2005, 03:35 PM
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QUOTE (Critias)
QUOTE (Sokei @ Mar 2 2005, 08:17 AM)
white phosphorous shot gun shells would basically make the gun a fire ball cannon. would suck if the wind was blowing back at you though. now WP shotgun SLUGS would be alittle better but id put a higher damage code on the close combat blast due to the higher amount of WP in the shells... but then the gun would melt too ... any solutions to melting?

Could be a potential reason to dikote your gun barrels. I have no idea how the heat given off by white phosphorous compares to the heat tolerances of dikoted materials, though.

I imagine dikoted materials have a fairly high heat tolerance--the base material stood up to plasma, and the dikoting itself needs to be about that hot to be applied. I make the latter statement on the basis that most people wouldn't put more energy into something than they have to, because it would raise the bottom line.
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hahnsoo
post Mar 2 2005, 04:50 PM
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QUOTE (Sokei)
white phosphorous shot gun shells would basically make the gun a fire ball cannon. would suck if the wind was blowing back at you though. now WP shotgun SLUGS would be alittle better but id put a higher damage code on the close combat blast due to the higher amount of WP in the shells... but then the gun would melt too ... any solutions to melting?

So basically, Big D's Temper shells from the Cannon Companion?
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Lindt
post Mar 2 2005, 04:56 PM
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I was about to say...
But the idea of dikoting the barrel of your combat shotgun to keep it from warping if you use something like Big D's isnt a half bad idea. More expensive then buying several new guns though...
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torzzzzz
post Mar 2 2005, 04:59 PM
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QUOTE (Aes @ Mar 2 2005, 09:07 AM)
Capsule rounds to carry chemicals like th eones you describe are available in Cannon Companion, page 38.

yep seen it but my thoughts run towards what you can actually put in them the possibilities are endless.

My other thought on the way home was that,............

In the old days of rifling they used to wrap the lead shot in cloth so that it would grip the rifling in the barrel, hence making them ore accurate. Would it be possible to create a negative rifling grove on modern bullets so that they grip the barrel in the same way? theoretically they would become faster and more accurate? if this has already been done i consider my self slapped down for it, but if not what would the game possibilitys be?

Also what about ceramic coated shells, on impact they shatter when the softer outer shell is squashed by impact, huge dammage i think!

torz x :D
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hahnsoo
post Mar 2 2005, 04:59 PM
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QUOTE (Tarantula)
Remington Streetsweeper? Its not a PVC shotgun, as PVC would horribly blow apart. But, its basically a fireing pin, with a box for a gunpowder charge to get put in, then you stuff whatever bits are around you in the front, and pull the trigger.

AFAIK, Remington doesn't make the Street Sweeper... it's a MacGuyvered street weapon. While it probably doesn't use PVC, I'm sure some sort of heavy industrial pipe could be used in its design.

Hrm. I wonder if a character with Shotgun B/R can make these and sell them on the street for a small profit... drives around in an ice cream van, selling polymer one-shots to the street kiddies...
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Lindt
post Mar 2 2005, 05:06 PM
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QUOTE (torzzzzz)

In the old days of rifling they used to wrap the lead shot in cloth so that it would grip the rifling in the barrel, hence making them ore accurate. Would it be possible to create a negative rifling grove on modern bullets so that they grip the barrel in the same way? theoretically they would become faster and more accurate?

*blink* Huh? They used to be greased, but that was WAY before the modern twist rifle. And they wouldent be using 'shot' per say, as it would then be smooth bore. So I say to you :proof:
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torzzzzz
post Mar 2 2005, 05:21 PM
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yessss but ............ my thinking was that you could go back to rifled barrels which could then have more accurate rifling. Smooth bore are all well and done but i have shot both shot guns and rifles in real life and i don't give a dam what anyone else say's an old style black powder rifle with a grooved barrel is deadly over medium / long distance. (nasty recoil though).

Just thought the principle could be modernized for the modern bullet which is not shot.

then again i could be talking a load of bull?? :twirl:

torz x :lick:
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Austere Emancipa...
post Mar 2 2005, 05:30 PM
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QUOTE (torzzzzz)
Would it be possible to create a negative rifling grove on modern bullets so that they grip the barrel in the same way? theoretically they would become faster and more accurate?

No, they wouldn't become any faster or more accurate. It seems that you have misunderstood the purpose of rifling in firearms.

Rifling is there to make sure that bullets, with their center-mass usually towards the rear of their longitudinal axis, remain statically (also called gyroscopically) stable in flight. It achieves this by incurring a certain amount of spin on the projectile inside the barrel. The amount of spin required is derived from the design of the bullet (mostly its length to diameter ratio) and some minor factors (air pressure, for example).

You'll want a large enough twist rate (determined in 1/# inches, e.g. 1/7") to keep the bullet statically stable in normal conditions, but you don't want much more than that. If the twist rate is too high for the particular bullet it becomes over-stabilized, ie. it spins so fast it keeps its nose pointing the in the direction it came out of the barrel in, unable to follow the trajectory (figure). This is unwanted, as it will degrade your accuracy over range.

The rifling does in no way make the projectile travel faster. If anything, it will slow the projectile down by a very minor amount, as it uses the forward-pushing force of the propellant to make the projectile spin.

You can find a great article on how bullets fly here. You might also want to read through Raygun's basics.

QUOTE (torzzzzz)
Also what about ceramic coated shells, on impact they shatter when the softer outer shell is squashed by impact, huge dammage i think!

There's plenty of deforming and/or fragmenting bullet designs out there, several covered in SR. Seriously, if you're at all interested in guns but don't want to house rule most of the stuff, get Cannon Companion. And if you do plant to house rule everything, you might want to read up on Raygun's stuff.

The canon Flechette Ammunition rules covers weird deforming bullet designs nicely. If you wish, you can also use the rules for Glazer, Hollow Point or Mercury rounds from CC.
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Tarantula
post Mar 2 2005, 05:42 PM
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ShockLock rounds for shotguns are also composed of ceramics. They're made for blasting through doors and the like, to reduce damage to those on the other side. All the things you've wanted, are already covered in CC. Go buy it, be happy.
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torzzzzz
post Mar 2 2005, 05:51 PM
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QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)
QUOTE (torzzzzz)
Would it be possible to create a negative rifling grove on modern bullets so that they grip the barrel in the same way? theoretically they would become faster and more accurate?

No, they wouldn't become any faster or more accurate. It seems that you have misunderstood the purpose of rifling in firearms.

Rifling is there to make sure that bullets, with their center-mass usually towards the rear of their longitudinal axis, remain statically (also called gyroscopically) stable in flight. It achieves this by incurring a certain amount of spin on the projectile inside the barrel. The amount of spin required is derived from the design of the bullet (mostly its length to diameter ratio) and some minor factors (air pressure, for example).

You'll want a large enough twist rate (determined in 1/# inches, e.g. 1/7") to keep the bullet statically stable in normal conditions, but you don't want much more than that. If the twist rate is too high for the particular bullet it becomes over-stabilized, ie. it spins so fast it keeps its nose pointing the in the direction it came out of the barrel in, unable to follow the trajectory (figure). This is unwanted, as it will degrade your accuracy over range.

The rifling does in no way make the projectile travel faster. If anything, it will slow the projectile down by a very minor amount, as it uses the forward-pushing force of the propellant to make the projectile spin.

You can find a great article on how bullets fly here. You might also want to read through Raygun's basics.

QUOTE (torzzzzz)
Also what about ceramic coated shells, on impact they shatter when the softer outer shell is squashed by impact, huge dammage i think!

There's plenty of deforming and/or fragmenting bullet designs out there, several covered in SR. Seriously, if you're at all interested in guns but don't want to house rule most of the stuff, get Cannon Companion. And if you do plant to house rule everything, you might want to read up on Raygun's stuff.

The canon Flechette Ammunition rules covers weird deforming bullet designs nicely. If you wish, you can also use the rules for Glazer, Hollow Point or Mercury rounds from CC.

Fair play point taken ......... my bad, thanks for the tip about ballistics and i already have CC the only problem is any ideas i have about new forms of ballistics seem to be impossible or already done....... Doh back to the drawing bord!

torz x
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Austere Emancipa...
post Mar 2 2005, 05:53 PM
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QUOTE (torzzzzz)
[...] the only problem is any ideas i have about new forms of ballistics seem to be impossible or already done. [...]

That's usually the case. That's why we play RPGs instead of working for the defense industry.
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torzzzzz
post Mar 2 2005, 05:50 PM
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yup but i would be a dam good job, just think of waht you could do with the money etc............ but in the real world i am not a homicidel maniac!

torz x
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Large Mike
post Mar 2 2005, 07:59 PM
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Just a slight aside (which I'll probably get in trouble for):

Torz, you're a fairly good poster, as posters go, and having you on the board is a pleasure (more or less), but trying to read what you write makes me physically ill. Could you please, for the love of Christ in a sidecar, use a spell-checker, and maybe some capitalization, or something? Please?
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Large Mike
post Mar 2 2005, 08:00 PM
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Unless you use only Gaelic in your day to day life. In which case, you're doing faily well.
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SirKalamon
post Mar 2 2005, 08:07 PM
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How about Ex-explosive APDS rounds?
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