Small unit tactics, whats the deal? Options

[SirKalamon]

Do the battle tac system increases what amount of dice to a SUT's user or is it just the -2 or -1 TN for the skill roll?

[Kagetenshi]

If you use a Tactical Computer as the Master Unit, you get additional dice.

~J

[Setthoth]

I have not seen any reference to bonus dice with the battle tac system except in conjuntion with the tactical computer system.
Also I do not believe that combat pool applies, especially since the Small Unit Tactics skill can either grant bonuses to init or as an optional rule bonuse dice to the combat pool.
As far as the tactical computer system, we've sort of house ruled that it is available at half cost as a NON cyber piece of equipment. Most usefull if it's a rigger using it.

[toturi]

Put it in a cyberlimb along with the cyberdeck.

[Critias]

Using the Battletac system can provide extra dice, but they're remarkably vague about "how" when you go to look it up -- the only way I can figure is that a character is capable of taking "Battletac" or something as a specialization of the SUT skill -- so, in a fashion (I guess), whenever they've got the right gear they're getting a "bonus" by getting to use their specialization.

[Eyeless Blond]

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

Ah, yes. The BattleTac skill from FoF. But Critias seems to be discussing SUT (BattleTac) or (Matrix Tactics), the latter of which is only useful if you have the BattleTac Matrixlink.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

[Critias]

Right. I'd say the difference is in the "book learning" of the character in question.

If they've been to a military academy or had SWAT officer training or something, I'd suggest they sink a few points into the SUT Knowledge skill, not just the active one; this would show that they understand the concepts and ideas behind the orders being given, they understand why and how it all comes together, and they would be able to (in a game I ran, at least) use that SUT knowledge skill to maybe have an idea of how someone else would use SUT against them.

If you know how the Lone Star SWAT team is gonna come into the room, you can know where to have your guns pointed and waiting for them. If you read the same manuals and went to the same classes as the Tir Ghost squad leader that's chasing you through Portland, maybe you know what to expect. It's also quite possible that all you've done is studied those manuals and gone to those classes, though; you could certainly have the Knowledge skill and be a bumbling jackass with no idea how to implement the ideas you've got. No Active skill required, to know the theories. There's just as many armchair officers in 2060 as today, I'd imagine.

The active skill is just that; it's doing it, not necessarily knowing it. In the same fashion that some people (most people) are quite capable of driving a car without understanding how an engine works, firing a handgun without really understanding the physics behind it, or typing very quickly without knowing how to program, some people in a world and reality as violent as Shadowrun would know what worked in a fight, and know how to tell people what to do, without really understanding the "fancy book smarts" behind it all.

A gang leader that's survived and won lots of alley-scraps and drive-bys would understand the value of fire superiority ("bust caps in their punk asses, yo!"), flanking ("shit, T-Dawg, take Rosco an' swing 'round that fuckin' alley! They's stuck behind that dumpster, y'all waste 'em!"), and tactical withdrawals ("Fuck, s'the Star! Fade!"). He might know what works in a fight, know what to look for in terms of dangerous ambush-potential terrain (chokepoints and the like), etc, etc... and just now know the names of all the shit he's learned through experience. He's got the active skill, but not the knowledge.

To me, that's the difference between the Knowledge and the Active skill(s), and the reasons someone might choose to take one, both, or neither.

[tisoz]

[Critias]

CC doesn't "make" it an active skill. CC introduces an active skill of the same name. There are still plenty of reasons to take it as a knowledge skill, and nowhere does it say (in CC or anywhere else) that it's no longer available as a knowledge.

[Kagetenshi]

[Critias]

To the best of my knowledge, that's not from the basic Battletac system though (the communicators, the external gear, the receivers that each team-mate has, the display screens built into helmets or whatever, etc) -- that's from a Tactical Computer (cyberware).

The only tangible benefit a Battletac hook-up by itself gives is if the character has taken the "via battletac" specialization of the skill (implying to me that they're just really badass at communicating via that particular hardware, etc, as opposed to commando hand signals and stuff). There are intangible benefits to using the Battletac equipment, sure -- shared line of sight, quicker transfer of general data to other team members, etc... but the only numerical difference in the specific application of the SUT active skill is if there's a specialization involved.

[Kagetenshi]

Die quantities, certainly. The -2 TN and simple-action-only is also rather nice, though…

~J

[Critias]

Unarguably. I was just under the impression there was still some confusion as to "extra dice or no extra dice?" and wanted to try and clear it up -- part of the book makes it very much sound like you outright get extra dice, but it's never backed up anywhere.