The Aztec Revival, Gimme some old time religion Options

[Ancient History]

Linkey

A handy resource for those who want their Azzie blood mages to be a bit more fleshed out...or who need inspiration for using the same.

While I have your attention, I'd like to take the time and wax eloquent about the Aztec revival for a moment.

The Aztec were brutal, and nasty, and highly cultured, and genocidal in the extreme. There's an interesting parallel between the rise of blood rites in Aztec culture and the Roman games...what started out as a bit of simple, small-scale conflict (for the Romans) and symbolic blood-letting (for the Azzies) quickly became an obsessive, morbid compulsion. High-born men and women would reach heights of extacy as people bled and died...and always demanded more.

It's less surprising, then, that the revamped Aztec culture has been slowly accustoming their people to greater and greater acceptance of bloodshed.

Also, and I know I'm belaboring a point, I'd like to again reccomend Harry Turtledove's "The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump." The guys behind Chocolate Weasel are outstanding as Azzie blood shamans.

[DrJest]

<looks dubious>

Don't get me wrong, AH, normally I'd trust a recommendation off you for literature. But I tried reading Turtledove's "Into the Darkness" and actually gave up on it - and this is a man who's read the Silmarillion, the Night's Dawn trilogy (all of it) and Gone With the Wind (I was ill, I'm not proud :) )

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

Well, it's not like some contemporary cultures don't also delight in mindless blodshed.

[DrJest]

[Synner]

Ernest Hogan's High Aztech is a great reference source for both Aztlan and Aztechnology.

[Moonstone Spider]

[Critias]

It's a piece of fiction in every way inferior to Sharkman Six (which was fantastic), but Owen West's Four Days to Veracruz has an...interesting Aztec purist crazy-ass knife-fighter psycho guy, that could very easily be used as an example of everything wrong with Shadowrun's Azzies (as well as an Adept on the Twisted Path).

[hermit]

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

[Fortune]

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

Good times. Shame they didn't show dead bodies. But that's what Telemundo and Univsion are for. Well, that and real (non-BBC) news.

[Deamon_Knight]

Hate to be Pedantic (Really!) but I think the general concept of gladiatorial Games is really exagerated. It looks like Gladiators took alot of cash to train and maintain, it doesn't seem possible that 50% were really killed during every match. Imagine a horse race where half the throughbreds were killed everytime.

Which is not to say that the Romans didn't really enjoy feeding their criminals, en masse, to Lions or whatnot!

As to the Aztecs, I always thought that They had a bit more in common with the Spartans in the way they would make Regular war on their client states. On top of that, modifying their battle tactics so as to stun/wound their enemies to maximize the numbers they would take hostage for ritual sacrifices later seems to be on a level all its own.

[mfb]

if you use the term "gladiators" loosely, it includes the criminals that the real, trained gladiators killed.

[Ancient History]

For those with the interest and means, I suggest hunting down a copy of "Those About To Die" by Daniel P. Mannix, for an intruiging look at the history and development of the Roman games.

So, did anyone else click on the link?

[Snow_Fox]

I've read turtledove, but he's tough going. his stuff doesn't flow.

Looking at the azzies. blood sports have often gottnn people excited, as long as the excited people don't have to risk being a part of the bloodshed themselves-"RENEW! RENEW! RENEW! to night at Carosel.

As for the gladiators, the blood shed was for the crimials and POW's who would be the mass death. The professional Gladiators were very expensive and rarely were killed, being the "rock stars" of their age.

[FlakJacket]

[Crimson Jack]

[nezumi]

AH - I glanced at the site. Just a listing of gods, yes? (Some of what I"m going to say is mentioned in my post, but the site really doesn't have a lot of color. I mean not counting the art.)

My parents are currently living in Guatemala, and so I got to see Tikal, the single largest Mayan religious center in the world. Of course, the Aztecs are largely an off-shoot from the Mayans, so the similarities are strong. However, as bloody as the Aztecs were, the Mayans were more so. While the Aztecs would rip out the living heart of their sacrifices, the Mayans would beat the sacrifice, breaking both his legs and arms, cut off his tongue and nose, skin him, leave him for a few days, disembowel him THEN cut out his heart. (Alright, maybe not in every case, but the Mayans were more vicious to their captives). They're also noted as having made more sacrifices.

Something else neat. The Mayan king and queen would have visions. The queen would pierce her tongue and the king his phallus, and pull a spiked string through, to keep the bleeding going. After some amount of time, they'd have visions (caused by pain, blood loss and drugs) when the spirits would come and advise them. If memory serves, this is where Quetzcoatl comes into play, he brought the visions.

The single neatest thing about the tour was seeing the difference in opinion. I got a book from my mom about Mayan art, which had a line something like: "The Mayans would regularly sacrifice humans, including the losing sports team and enemy combatants. In many cases, this was preceeded by weeks of torture and bleeding until the stars were in proper alignment. Here's a clay figure of a man getting his intestines pulled out and tied around his broken arms. Notice his face has been forcibly removed."

Whereas our local guide said:

"These stones are where they did the sacrifices. Usually they'd sacrifice animals and vegetables. Occaisionally they would sacrifice a person, but don't worry, they were all volunteers."



Hrrmmmm.... A little biased?

If you get a chance, definitely try to find pictures of the temples. They're really impressive, and it looks like spaceship landing pads peeking above the canopy.

[Fortune]

I'm pretty sure that the site in question isn't actually maintained by Ancient History. I think he just thought people would find it worthy of mention.

[mfb]

they IS spacship ladning pads! them alliens are taking ovar teh globb!

that is all.

[Ancient History]

No, I did not make or maintain the site. I thought it was interesting because:
a) Lists old Aztec gods and some related mythology
b) They have scans of a Spanish translation of an Aztec codex, which if nothing else would make great player handouts.