Ally Spirits, Shamanic Spellcasting Prejudice |
Ally Spirits, Shamanic Spellcasting Prejudice |
Mar 8 2005, 08:52 PM
Post
#1
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
When a Shaman summons an Ally Spirit, then teaches it spells, would the Ally have the same modifiers to specific spell categories as the Shaman?
If, for instance. a Raccoon Shaman were to teach his Ally a Combat spell, would it have 1 less dice to use when it cast that spell? Would that same Ally get bonus dice for Manipulation spells? |
|
|
Mar 8 2005, 08:51 PM
Post
#2
|
|
Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
That sounds appropriate, though it could be worse, they could be subject to the limitations of aspected shamanic sorcerers
|
|
|
Mar 8 2005, 09:16 PM
Post
#3
|
|
Illuminate of the New Dawn Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 317 Joined: 9-June 03 From: Seattle 'Plex, UCAS Member No.: 4,700 |
If you read the sorcery entry for allies strictly, then, no, they don't because they just have a skill equal to their summoner's, they don't cast like their summoner, which is sort of supported by the fact that both the spirit and the summoner can't learn a spell at the same time - the summoner has to learn it for his ally or for himself, implying that they use different methods.
Having said that, it makes sense to me. I mean, if your a shaman, your ally is likely to be related somehow to your totem, right? So why not have the same bonuses/penalties? |
|
|
Mar 8 2005, 09:22 PM
Post
#4
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 248 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Note Calonna Member No.: 241 |
I'd house rule it that the Ally would have the same bonuses and limitations as the summoner.
|
|
|
Mar 9 2005, 02:06 AM
Post
#5
|
|
Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Then what happens when they go free? Spirits don't follow any magical traditions, per se, and I'm fairly certain they have a different view of magic than humanity (you don't see spirits conjuring other spirits, for example). Although folks may house rule Ally Spirits to follow totemic traditions while they are under the influence of their summoner, I don't see spirits retaining that totem after they are free.
|
|
|
Mar 9 2005, 04:26 AM
Post
#6
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
Well, Spirits are magic. Free ally spirits don't take drain. They are not makes,and are not shamans. They can't learn conjuring,and the don't by themselves gain karma.
|
|
|
Mar 9 2005, 04:44 AM
Post
#7
|
|||
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
unusual for spirits but there you have it. Edward |
||
|
|||
Mar 9 2005, 05:02 AM
Post
#8
|
|||||
Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Free Ally Spirits do not take drain. Under the rules for Free Spirits, the Sorcery power states that Drain does not affect the spirit. |
||||
|
|||||
Mar 9 2005, 05:20 AM
Post
#9
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
As much sense as it makes to limit the spirit in that way. They do pay out the ass painfully so with karma in order to get the ally spirit, I'd say let the spirit act as a neutral spirit and not have any penalties/bonuses. Now, if you had a dove shaman (they can't cast combat spells IIRC) who had an ally spirit. And the ally spirit somehow learned a combat spell, it could cast it, but I would rule the dove shaman couldn't directly ask it to, it would have to be a case where the spirit was doing it of its own free will to either help itself get away, or help the shaman out.
|
|
|
Mar 9 2005, 05:21 AM
Post
#10
|
|
Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
Since the shaman has to develope a formula for the Ally, can he program into the formula "will follow raccoon"?
This leads to: Can an Ally's personality be created along with it? As to the Ally getting the bonuses for the Shaman's totem: The Totem chooses the shaman, not the other way around. One of the powers the totem chooses to give is the ability to cast certain spells better than others. (hence, the totem can choose to take this away if the shaman displeases it) A shaman can't confer this upon another being, the Totem has to. |
|
|
Mar 9 2005, 05:29 AM
Post
#11
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Yes, but the Ally is technically a part of the Shaman himself, and his actual Magic. That is why I asked.
I am enjoying reading the responses so far, and look forward to more opinions on the matter. |
|
|
Mar 9 2005, 07:22 AM
Post
#12
|
|
Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
I'm with FrostyNSO on this one. Ally is not called by the Totem. Ally doesn't get Totem advantages / disadvantages. Just my 2 nuyen.
|
|
|
Mar 9 2005, 07:35 AM
Post
#13
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I'm not necessarily disagreeing. I just think both sides of the argument are pretty much equally valid.
|
|
|
Mar 9 2005, 07:53 AM
Post
#14
|
|||
Mr. Quote-function Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,312 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Germany Member No.: 1,376 |
And I wouldn't agree ... :) 1. Totem bonuses would be something like bonus dice based on their natural plane (in your example raccon's plane), but ally spirits explicitly don't get that although the conjuring shaman can chose the spirit's home plane freely (p. 108 MitS, Native Planes of Allies) 2. Even if you don't consider totemic bonuses as described under point 1, for something as important as bonus dice on spell casting for allies, IMHO you'd need an explicit rule that specifies something like that. |
||
|
|||
Mar 9 2005, 07:57 AM
Post
#15
|
|
Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Here's another thing: Does an ally also get any appropriate specializations of Sorcery when you create one? My thought is yes, but it's never really come up before, and nothing is specifically stated in the rules, just "An ally has the Sorcery Skill at a rating equal to its creature's Sorcery at the time of the spirit's creation"
|
|
|
Mar 9 2005, 08:42 AM
Post
#16
|
|||
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
The opposite point being that the Ally is typically created with the invested Magic Point of the Caster himself. I also recall reading that over time, they develop a personality and outlook similar to their summoner. |
||
|
|||
Mar 9 2005, 08:44 AM
Post
#17
|
|||
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I've always ruled that they get the exact same level of the Sorcery Skill as their summoner, which includes any and all specializations. After all, specializations are considered to be part and parcel of their associated skill. |
||
|
|||
Mar 9 2005, 08:48 AM
Post
#18
|
|||
It's for winners Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 523 Joined: 8-February 05 From: Wiltshire with da shooty stuff Member No.: 7,067 |
We always played it that the spirit has the same power as the force of the summon, i know this has already been saud but i would love to know if others play it differently? torz x :P |
||
|
|||
Mar 9 2005, 08:48 AM
Post
#19
|
|||
Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
If that's so, then why is the section on allies filled with warnings about how the ally is constantly trying to free itself from its master? From the text you'd think that allies spent all their time plotting how to get the heck away from the mage that conjured them, not that they'd have similar personalities. The flavor text is one of the main reasons I'd be loathe to ever conjure one up in the first place; that's a whole heap of Karma for the GM to suddenly decide to screw you out of. |
||
|
|||
Mar 9 2005, 08:49 AM
Post
#20
|
|||
Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Ally Spirits are different from regular Nature spirits. You might want to read the relevant sections out of Magic in the Shadows. |
||
|
|||
Mar 9 2005, 08:52 AM
Post
#21
|
|||||
It's for winners Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 523 Joined: 8-February 05 From: Wiltshire with da shooty stuff Member No.: 7,067 |
aah, don't have my mits with me at the moment, comment on the hock, I know should not open mouth before checked comment out! :P ;) torz x |
||||
|
|||||
Mar 9 2005, 01:23 PM
Post
#22
|
|||
Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
I was thinking you might be confusing allies with bound free spirits. I re-read the ally section, and the introduction does make it sound that way, if you overlook a sentence here and there. Basically the intro is saying that they pretty much follow the master without question. As they become more powerful, they may want independance. Skip to the section about them having a chance to go free. There is a lot more information about how they may remain loyal, even if they could go free. They even have a nice example. |
||
|
|||
Mar 9 2005, 01:59 PM
Post
#23
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
What it boils down to is, how do you treat your ally? treat it like a slave, it'll screw you over at the first opportunity. Treat it like a friend and partner, it's unlikely to want to leave. I know my ally spirit ditched two chances to go free in favour of saving my sorry hind end.
|
|
|
Mar 9 2005, 05:32 PM
Post
#24
|
|
Illuminate of the New Dawn Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 317 Joined: 9-June 03 From: Seattle 'Plex, UCAS Member No.: 4,700 |
Definatly - just look at the exchange: do you give the ally more karma than it could get on its own and generally not torture it and make it do menial tasks? If they answer if yes, it isn't going anywhere. If you make it hurt too much or make it do stupid stuff like always getting you beers or something, it might get tired of it after a while. That's my take, anyway.
|
|
|
Mar 9 2005, 06:24 PM
Post
#25
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 176 Joined: 8-March 05 Member No.: 7,146 |
if you wanted the ally to have your shamanic bonises and penaltys, you could ask your GM if you can play it as the Totem sent the Ally to you. (you would still have to pay the Karma exc.) Any minor advantages could be ballanced by the fact that treating the ally poorly would be taken personaly by the Totem (He did send it after all.) Any casting / materals / downtime involved in normaly aquiring an ally could be justifyed by some spirit quest (the shawman receaves a vision full of metaphore and stuff and must figure out what his totem is trying to say.
Mostly, if giving the ally the same flavor as the shawman would be good for the game and add some interesting feel to it, then go for it. |
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 29th March 2024 - 05:50 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.