More sneaky sneaky, stealth suits, what a pain in the hoop Options

[fistandantilus4....]

Have a player that put together one dandy of a suit.

Ruthenium of course, w/ 12 cameras. As already discussed, limited to modifier to a +8

Thermal dampening. Goes up to +8 agaisnt thermographic and sensors. Of course, it's at +8.

Ultrasound emmiter/detector 10

some back up batteries.

Of course, he's a silent way adept.
Traceless walk:+4 stealth

There are the usuals of course to spot him. Shadows, no foot prints though, flour/paint/whatever splattered on the suit.

Basically, question is, does this all work. Thermal on the inside of the suit, Ruthenium on the ouside. Ultrasound emitters to fool ultra sound. About the only thing that sees him is astral.

Any reason this shouldn't work? Limits to armor modification? getting really hot in the suit? Thankfully his batteries run down eventually!

[hahnsoo]

The Ultrasound emitter/detector simply doesn't work for the purposes of not being seen. You can jam and disrupt ultrasound, but this is the brute force method and will ruin your stealth in the face of ultrasound sensors; they will know something is there, just not exactly what or who due to the profile disruption of the emitter.

Thermal dampening is limited up to the maximum ballistic/impact rating of the suit of armor. If it's just clothing, then you get a maximum of two points of "armor" options, per Cannon Companion page 52. I suppose you can get a ruthenium ghillie suit or poncho to overlay your thermal dampened armor, but you would be suffering the usual armor stacking penalties.

[fistandantilus4....]

hiw quickness is 8, and he made the suit from sec armor (I think light though, so that's a few points off). At least he doesn't have to worry about being seen in sec armor though!

I wasn't aware that Ultrasound emitters were basically the equivelant of a maglock key (as in frying the lock pretty well).

Needless to say it's a higher karma game, and it cost him an absolute ton of nuyen.

So for the ultrasound, what does it show? static?
If that's the case, why even bother? Why make something to bypass an alarm, only to have it completely obvious? or is that jsut the case with something like an U.S. camera?

[hahnsoo]

[fistandantilus4....]

Too bad, I was hoping to know off a few points. THanks for the clarification though.

My understanding of the U.S. emitters is that it makes the sensor see nothing

pg. 293 SR3

"This device detects and analyzes the ultrasonic field produced by certain motion sensors.It can also attempt to spoof the sensor into thinking that nothing is moving through it's field."

Goes on to give the rules for the opposed rolls and the movement rate.

Now is that basically saying that it only really works on motion sensors, but to say ultrasound goggles, the effect would be obvious, like a large static field?

So really the only effective defense against ultrasound goggles would be the silence spell (as discussed).

of course that only reduces the target numbers from sight by half (+4) in this case. STill makes dodging pretty easy.

Were there ever any clear answers on spotting someone with ruthenium in combat? I always saw it more like the predator or Grey fox in MGS. You could see them, but it was hard to pin down. Say a +4? Much like the ultrasound only having a set rate of movement depending on how strong the "spoof" is.

[hahnsoo]

From the text, it looks like it works against Ultrasound motion sensors specifically and even then, only if you are moving very slowly. This is confirmed in SOTA:2063 as well (which shows how to beat them without using an Ultrasound emiter/detector). The detector will also detect if someone is using an ultrasound sight, but I don't think the device works against ultrasound sight systems. On an interesting note, SOTA:2063 makes mention of thermal motion sensors, but I don't see any rules for them anywhere.

As far as ruthenium in combat, a lot of groups do this in different ways. Some force the +8 Blind Fire mod even when the sneak is detected, some give the +2 modifier for having camouflage vs. ranged attacks, some don't apply any visual mods at all if the sneak is detected. Others go by the modifiers shown in the Camo spell (+4 vs. ranged attacks). It's up to you, really, unless someone can post where it says the exact TN visibility modifier for a ruthenium polymer suit.

[Kagetenshi]

There is no such effect. According to all of the text, an ultrasound emitter will spoof ultrasound perfectly with the proper roll.

Strictly speaking, ruthenium provides mods only to the Perception test. While the camo bonus for someone moving slowly enough would be fair, by canon someone who has been spotted has no additional mod against them.

~J

[Edward]

I would say that a US emitter works differently on motion detectors and ultrasound imaging systems.

It works against motion detectors as described in its section.

Against imaging system it has the same effect as a white noise generator is described as doing in the section on ultrasound vision.

Edward

[hobgoblin]

a US motion detector works by scaning a area over and over, if a element of the echo seems to move more then x amount in a given time unit then the alarm goes of. the trick here is that its a dumb device, if you can return the same signal that it sends out then it see nothing at all and the alarm does not go of.

but someone useing a US sight or googles will start to wonder whats wrong when he gets a flat image all of a sudden. he may relate it to faulty equipment but he may allso theorize that there is someone out there thats jamming his equipment. this is even more likely if he have a backup device and it to shows the same problem. two devices failing at the same time? can happen but very unlikely.

[Endgame50]

I think thermal dampening becomes ineffective if you wear the armor too long. As long as he puts it on just before he sneaks, it's fine, but if he's wearing it all day, the body heat is going to warm it up.

Also, magicians / physads with astral perception can see through it, but it's not a device that can be used overly much without straining credibility.

[Eyeless Blond]

[Edward]

I managed a version once that was starting character available and gave +8 to perception checks by any meta human.

8 sensor ruthenium.
Thermal dampening 4
Ultrasound emitter detector 4

If you have only normal or lowlight vision it is ruthenium +8
If you also have thermographic its ½ ruthenium and thermal 8/2+4=8
If you also have ultrasound halve penalties and ad white noise rating 8/2+4=8

Of cause with the last you know your being jammed.

Edward

[hahnsoo]

[The Grifter]

A Silent way Adept in fraggin' security armor. What's next?

[toturi]

Rigger in his Stealth Tank.

[Edward]

[Rieal82]

[toturi]

Wouldn't be any worse that the Stealth Submarine Aircraft Carrier with its own Free Great Form Spirit.

[Edward]

I don’t hav time to do a full write up but hear is how it goes

Start by building a RV that runes of an electric fuel cell
Give it max starting CF, load, signature improvement and a few items to make it a consumer RV any character could buy
Improved suspension 2
Of road suspension 1
Dual purpose run flat tires
Rollbars
Spotlights


Then customise it (payingthe costs for after market customisations) with
Advanced drone pilot 3
Auto soft interpretation
Remote control interface
Rigger adoption
Rigger encryption 6
Improved security 6
Ruthenium paint job with max sensors
Sensors 5
ECM 4
ED 3
22 points of concealed vehicle armour
Drive by wire 2
And a popup small turret.

The biggest weapon you can put in it as a starting character is a LMG but that can latter be upgraded to a HMG, missile launcher or vindicator minigun during the game.

That is the best I can do limiting it to availability 8 and rigger 3 revised.

The price tag is somewhere in the order of 600k-700k.

You did ask.

Edward

[Edward]

if we are including magic I can have a shaman on its crew summon a force 6 city spirit to use its concealment power on the vehicle.

Edward

[hobgoblin]

and that, for some reason, makes all those neat tech gizmos useless ;)
hmm, i wonder if a great from sea spirit could be able to hide a carrier task force...

[BitBasher]

[Tarantula]

[Edward]

[Tarantula]

The reason I say it wouldn't act as a white noise generator, is it is only producing ultra-sound, no others. Seeing as things that produce lots of light, or lots of heat are glare for the respective vision modes, something producing lots of ultrasound also serves to glare ultrasound users.