 The Seattle Chainsaw Massacre, Troll+Chainsaw=worried Gm |
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 Mar 15 2005, 06:08 AM
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#26
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712  |
Maybe I'm the odd duck out, but I think a troll with a chainsaw is an incredibly stupid idea... especially if the chainsaw is the troll's main weapon. Let's think about this for a moment.
:dead: Sound: This has been discussed. What team is going to want a noisy ass troll with a chainsaw rattling away? Maybe this is a Barrens-exclusive party, but if stealth is required for any of the runs, count the team dead... or at least the troll. :dead: Timing: Chainsaws, as with most pull-start machinery, often don't start on the first pull. I live in the northwest and have seen some "professional" model chainsaws used in lumberjack contests that exhibit this un-feature. Temperature and humidity can affect this startup process. What is Leatherface going to do when he keeps burning turns trying to get his cool weapon started? :dead: Concealability. As in, none. Any LS patrol who runs across a walking mammoth with a chainsaw is going to detain him/her. And unless the troll is going to try and carry the machine under his trenchcoat and claim that he's just happy to see them, I can't imagine that it would be easy (dare I say, possible) to tote said chainsaw around town without drawing all kinds of unwanted attention. :dead: Forget "Geek the Mage". Geek the fraggin' troll waving the chainsaw! Seriously, that player should have a high death probability counter ticking away over his head. If you saw that running at you, would you not center all attention on him/her? dead dead dead dead |
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Mar 15 2005, 06:21 AM
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#27
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690 |
In a ganger style campaign, I can imagine the chainsaw troll being a very effective, very scary piece of muscle.
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Mar 15 2005, 06:32 AM
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#28
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
In that same campaign any sane GM could easily make him an effectively big scary convict real quikly too....
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Mar 15 2005, 06:40 AM
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#29
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690 |
Depends on the campaign. In the gang level campaigns I've been in, you could have a full on exchange of rockets, mortars, and HMG fire, and not hear a peep out of the star. As long as what was going on in the Z zone didn't spill out, they didn't care what went on in there.
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Mar 15 2005, 07:25 AM
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#30
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
They have a pic of a ganger wielding a chainsaw in the main book (and his buddy has a flamethrower). The only trouble comes when you try to take the chainsaw out of the Z zone.
As for stealth, a chainsaw can certainly be stealthy... he doesn't have to turn it on. :D "Uh, Bubba? Isn't that a bit, uh, ineffective?" *Clubber* *Smoosh* "No." |
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Mar 15 2005, 07:24 AM
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#31
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Target Group: Members Posts: 71 Joined: 2-February 05 From: Greensboro, NC Member No.: 7,046 |
he could always dress like a lumberjack... |
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Mar 15 2005, 07:47 AM
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#32
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690 |
Just pair him up with a big blue juggarnaut, and no one will suspect a thing.
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Mar 15 2005, 08:07 AM
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#33
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,088 Joined: 8-October 04 From: Dallas, TX Member No.: 6,734 |
In all seriousness, get a mage to put a stealth spell on the chainsaw. Ain't noisy now....and somehow a stealthy chainsaw troll just scares the bejeezus outta people.
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Mar 15 2005, 08:42 AM
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#34
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
It's not that scary, really. Yeah, he's slinging 14 dice, and he's got Reach. But he's fighting a fairly hefty +4 for defaulting. Base TN 8, if he's smart he'll only use one point of his reach to make it TN 7 ("the sweet spot"), and the other point to bump his opponent's TN to a 5. So he's tossing 14 dice at TN 7, right? Big whoop. He can't use combat pool to help out, so 14 dice at TN 7 is the best he'll have -- and that's giving him a shade over two successes. Average security guard with Clubs 2/Shock Baton 4? Tosses in his combat pool (who wouldn't against a maniac with a chainsaw?), uses his weapon's reach of 1 to knock his TN back down to 4, and slings 8 dice at TN 4. Doubles the troll's successes. The Troll roars, charges, swings, misses, gets tased with a prod-stick to the eye, falls down, whimpers, cries, and then it's the security guy's actual action and he sticks the Troll again (or his buddies hop in, and they all have a good old time). Defaulting in an opposed test like melee combat is quite simply horrible ineffective against anyone with any real skill (someone with a Brawling of 3 and no reach, no devotes their combat pool to it, is still gonna be tying the Troll's average successes). The guy needs to get himself some Chainsaw skill dice if he wants to do anything but look intimidating and characterfull as hell. And even with the skill he's nothing game-breaking. He's got a high power and a nice damage code, but it's all about the dice. All the roaring and mauling in the world ain't gonna help him against a wierd old chinese guy with a ton of kung fu and some adept bonus dice to toss around, y'know? And the "troll melee guy" schtick can be done a lot nastier than a guy waving around a chainsaw. Still, thumbs up for the style factor. It wouldn't fit in most games of hardened pro killers and thieves being too cool for words, y'know? But I can definately see it being a scary chunk of metahumanity to run into in the right street-level sort of game. Get him some appropriate skill dice and let him be scary, though, not just cool. |
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Mar 15 2005, 10:41 AM
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#35
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Just remember, the stats in CC are for a stock chainsaw. Do not, under any condition, let the troll's player see this video and start to get ideas.
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Mar 15 2005, 11:03 AM
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#36
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
The damage code isn´t that high. But there´s the question if strength really should be that vital to the damage of a chainsaw. A troll with str 14 should easily be able to cut a person in half with a sword. That kind of power is beyond humanly possible after all. But a chainsaw is much more cumbersome and it takes it´s time cutting through stuff, I recon. Much faster than any human could accomplish with a sword, but should it be a better choice for the troll really? Either way I wouldn´t bother houseruling this anyway.
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Mar 15 2005, 11:06 AM
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#37
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 269 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,817 |
I'll just settle for the "predator" from that movie, get that dikoted and you'll be cutting even bone-laced people in half in no time. Scrap the dikote even, with the speed that chainsaw went through that log you wouldn't need to dikote, except to save on maintenance.
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Mar 15 2005, 12:33 PM
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#38
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
The troll would attack using a skill, not his strength, wouldn't he? Otherwise, I'd give him a +4 for defaulting to strength. Something like a "chanisaw" skill. Also, a critical failure with a chainsaw should result in the attack going off against the player (lest he manages to make it in a +4 penalty dodge test) because these things can bounce off whatever you want to cut and move right into your face at an amazing speed if you touch the tree (or person) you want to cut with the tip.
But game-breaking? Naaah. Even if the troll had Chainsaw (Ash-2000 Slasher Plus) at 6(8) as a beginner character, there's a fairly easy way to deal with such characters: The Barret, or even 'just' the Walter 2000, preferrably operated by an initiated physad sniper. If your troll player goes over the edge, make him feel what snipers can do to close-combat fighters. If you really orry about the troll, though, disallow Dikote, or at least, make the players roll the availability per gram, each separate time. Dikote is just a wee bit powerful indeed, and shouldn't be that freely available. |
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Mar 15 2005, 12:55 PM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 248 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Note Calonna Member No.: 241 |
I'd thing using a Chainsaw in melee combat would be almost as dangerous to the Troll as the opponent. Chainsaws kick back very easily when they hit something solid, like their oppoenent's titanium bone lacing. The Troll could be in for a very nasty suprise.
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Mar 15 2005, 03:41 PM
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#40
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 269 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,817 |
There's no need to houserule Chainsaws worse than they are, or to limit dikote on them. They're already screwed against real ranged opposition, and they're not very stealthy or subtle, and they leave a horrible mess. The only good thing about them is the fact that the troll could maim any number of underarmed opponents in melee with it, but so can all close-combat trolls.
Dikoting the chainsaw would only give it +1power, since it uses the chainsaw skill and thus isn't an edged weapon. So the dikoted katana is still on par with the chainsaw. |
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Mar 15 2005, 04:14 PM
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#41
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 384 Joined: 18-August 03 From: North VA Member No.: 5,519 |
With all the limitations aside, I'd say...cool. For a ganger campaign, it would be just right.
Sure, you're awfully distinctive, but that can also be a good thing, as people get scared. Play your cards right and you could end up being a huge player on the gang scene. Or graduate to the Mafia. Hell, the Mafia wouldn't even have to use you. They just point to your character ripping apart wooden dummies with wild abandon and say, "You screw up, we send that guy after you." |
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Mar 15 2005, 06:59 PM
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#42
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,088 Joined: 8-October 04 From: Dallas, TX Member No.: 6,734 |
Holy crap...a V8 Chainsaw. What the heck would the damage code on THAT thing be? You might be able to cut through titanium bone lacing with THAT, that's for sure.
Only ESPN would be covering that....geez that was hilarious yet disturbing at the same time. A troll would be able to heft that thing, for sure. [edit] :rofl: I think the V8 Chainsaw is the trollsized version... |
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Mar 15 2005, 07:34 PM
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#43
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
As the GM, I'd keep track of fuel.
Do a little research on modern chainsaws, like run time, etc. Improve by about 15% to cover modern tech. Convert the runtime to a point system of some sort. say 10 "points" per liter, 1.5 liter fuel resevoir being common. Starting uses 1 point, every full round after the first (all passes, to new initiative) uses 1 point. On a botch, roll a d6, 1 Blade flies up, resist your own attack with a +4 penalty, 2-3, chain snags and backs up, needs repairs. 4-6, nothing wrong. If he does dikote the chain, make it 2 not 2~3. |
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Mar 15 2005, 07:49 PM
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#44
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Avatar of Mediocrity Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 725 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle, WA (err, UCAS) Member No.: 277 |
I believe CP202X had a cyberarm-implantable retracting chainsaw. The Husqvarna ChainRipp I think. Nothing screams style quite the way that does.
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Mar 15 2005, 07:51 PM
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#45
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
lol, if that doesn't scream Ash, nothing does
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Mar 15 2005, 08:01 PM
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#46
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Target Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 9-December 03 Member No.: 5,888 |
Thx for the replies, I was kind of stickershocked when he showed me the character. Now that I have taken some time to think it over, there are plenty of worse weapons he could have chosen, No Dachi and a few others come to mind. But he will deffinitly be getting some bonuses when it comes to his intimidation skill. Not to mention that flesh mask he wears. Can't wait till the johnson meets him for the first time. Thats going to be an awkward silence.
I think thats a great idea nicoli. But what about starting the chainsaw would that be a complex action? |
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Mar 15 2005, 08:04 PM
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#47
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,088 Joined: 8-October 04 From: Dallas, TX Member No.: 6,734 |
flesh mask? Oh my that IS going to be a fun character. Starting a chainsaw should be a simple - it's the same as readying a weapon, IMO. Normally it's just a pull...and if you're an experienced user you would know the tweaks to get the thing started up every time, first pull. |
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Mar 15 2005, 08:01 PM
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#48
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
Not to mention it's a combat tuned chainsaw, ghost help us, so it's likely that the thing has multiple start avenues, like DNI-controlled ignition, with a redundant pull-start.
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Mar 15 2005, 08:13 PM
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#49
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Avatar of Mediocrity Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 725 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle, WA (err, UCAS) Member No.: 277 |
Heh heh. The ChainRipp comes standard with a fuel-cell or mini-battery powered motor, starts on DNI signal and is pretty quiet. You can pay extra for a good old-fashioned gas engine and a pull-cord starter. :) Say what you will about CP as a playable system, it had mad style. |
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Mar 15 2005, 09:06 PM
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#50
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,011 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 7,087 |
So that Troll is a lumberjack and he's Ok? He sleeps all day and run all night?
I bet he wears suspenders and a bra, too. I know that SR made melee weapons cool for the 21st century but a troll charging into combat with a chainsaw has more in common with an episode of the loony tunes than with a cyberpunk game IMO. Next, you'll have players moving around on rocket rollerskate while wielding dynamite sticks as their main weapon. :please: |
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