Taser questions., This came up in a game tonight... Options

[Solstice]

I have a question regarding tasers. There appears to be two types. Both use darts but one type uses wires to deliver the charge while the other uses high capacity batteries or some such thing in the dart itself. So in game terms how does each one work?

If someone hits with a wired one can they just keep putting the juice to the victim every pass? Is there only the ability to fire once? I know how they work in real life but the game terms are very vauge?

Are the wireless ones just one shot wonders that discharge in a single pass?

Thanks in advance.

[Critias]

I wouldn't call it an "auto hit" every round or anything like that, but I'd certainly let someone describe a second (or third, or fourth) shot from a taser as just holding down the trigger. If that second (or third, or fourth) shot missed, I'd describe it as their victim spasming horribly and dislodging the darts, or something.

Then again, with something using the common Pistols skill with a damage code of 9D (stun) or so, how many shots do you need, really? Those things are notoriously lethal in my table top group, where the players have accidentally tazed people to death three or four times.

[toturi]

I take it that the wires cut themselves off once the appropriate amount of juice gets passed through them. And the wireless ones just discharge once.

[Fortune]

[Critias]

[Dog]

I think that the above conversation pretty much answers the question. If tasers are designed to be non-lethal, and a second or third 'jolt' would be lethal, then they are probably not designed to deliver a second 'jolt' with the same shot. It would defeat the non-lethal purpose of using a taser. Dunno how it works IRL, though. Never had the pleasure.

[Tarantula]

I always thought any stun damage dealt after deadly translated directly to physical. I.E. You take a D stun wound and fall down unconcious. You take another D stun wound, and it translates straight to physical, and now its the equivilant of having taken a D Physical wound.

[Dog]

That's exactly it, Tarantula. That's what they mean when they say that multiple taser shots are deadly.

[Tarantula]

Alright, but doesn't the shock do 10S Stun that can't be staged? Requireing 4 hits to drop them down to dead? 6(serious wound) * 4 = 24 boxes of damage, so it puts them 4 into overflow also.

[Dog]

I'm not seeing your point, T.

My point is that tasers are designed to shock someone into incapacity. One shot should do that, so there is no reason to design a taser that delivers multiple shocks with one shot, because they're just too dangerous.

[Tarantula]

I'm more just trying to make sure I'm understanding how multiple taser shots work. Now that I'm sure on that, I don't see how having it do a S base damage, unstagable, is at all designed to incapacitate, as it takes a minimum of 2 shots to incapacitate someone.

[Dog]

It would take 2 shots to put someone unconcious. Most rational people would stop fighting after the first. Or to put it in game terms: a +5 modifier should count as incapacitation in most cases.

[Tarantula]

+3 modifier. Its not the # of boxes of damage, but the wound level. A Serious wound is +3 TN, -3 Init.

You're right, most non-professionals/crazies would stop after 1 shot. But Incapacitate means knock-out. Not make them hurt a lot, not make most people stop resisting, it means, make them unable to resist. Especially if this was a police weapon, it should be doing a D stun.

I said minimum of 2 shots, as people can still resist the 10S Stun. Especially if they're in runner undies that are non-conductive (as mine usually are). Dropping it down to 5S Stun (-4 from non-conductive, -1 impact). Which isn't too terribly hard to resist, especially if you're a combat monkey of any kind.

Say they do moderates each shot, due to lack of staging. It now takes 4 shots to drop someone unconcious, and that includes most trolls, and a good number of orks and dwarves in being able to do that. At least 3 shots. (S + M = 9 boxes)

[Rieal82]

+5 is right +3 from damage and +2more from the shock of a tazer. they are some nasty weapons

[Tarantula]

On that note, why isn't there a +2 with any elemental manipulation spells that shock people? (Lightning bolt for instance)

[Dawnshadow]

[Tarantula]

So? All the spell lightning bolt does is cause lots of electricity to hit the target.... similar to a lightning bolt. All a taser does is send a lot of electricity into the target via conduction... similar to a lightningbolt. Why should the aftereffects be any different?

[Dog]

Incapacitate: to disable, to make ineligible.
Incapacity: lack of sufficient strength or power.

Stick your tongue in a light socket. You will note that although it probably did not knock you out, you don't feel like doing much afterwards.

Stun weapons do add an additional +2 modifier for a short period, reduced by a Body test of some sort. Add that to a serious wound modifier. voila, +5 (edit: I see some of you guys beat me to this point.)

And the design of tasers, I insist, is NOT to knock people out. It is to make them settle down so they can be arrested or restrained. Since the people who build them want to avoid being sued excessively, they probably will make tasers that have a minimal risk of killing someone.
Of course that means that said tasers won't be as effective against an armored, insulated, metahuman "combat monkey". Against a typical person, they do quite nicely. And a more powerful taser, against a typical person, is too dangerous.

Atypical people, like the ones you suggested, are one reason why cops don't JUST carry tasers. Tasers don't have the versatility and the stopping power against a serious combatant. A cop who's in danger is not going to screw around with someone he thinks is going to hurt him, he'll use a firearm. The taser is for the unarmed shirtless guy in the back alley who just refuses to cooperate.

Your numbers are mostly right, though. Tasers suck in serious combat. They're not made for it.

(edit: as to the lightning issue: maybe its an AC/DC thing?)

[Tarantula]

Cops in the times would have to acknowledge that Trolls, Orks, and Dwarves all exist, and most of them (especially trolls) are not going to be incapacitated much by a taser (Especially if the TN mod is off a body test).

As far as pulling a gun, I'm sorry, cops are only allowed to respond with equal force. If you have no weapon, a taser is as far as they can go, you pull a blunt object of somekind, now they can use a nightstick, and a knife or gun, they get their gun. Now, the trick is if they think you have a weapon, and if they say they thought you reached into your pocket to pull one, they're in the clear. But they're supposed to not be shooting guns at unarmed combatants.

You're right, tasers aren't designed to knock people out, and with the abstract damage rules in SR, especially with the staying concious after a deadly wound in MM, they wouldn't even with a DStun Damage code. You'd be laying on the ground, twitching perhaps, moaning unintelligibly, but not be dead. Just train your cops that they don't have to shoot more than once unless they miss or you don't flop to the floor.

[Rieal82]

[Nikoli]

Some wire trail tasers, IRL, have the capacity (no pun intended) to deliver repeat shocks to keep an assailant incapacitated for a maximum amount of time allowing for either escape or help to arrive. That same taser also has a built in stun gun in case you had multiple assailants you could taser one and still not be defenseless against any others.

[Tarantula]

Theres no reason the electricity in the lightning bolt spell couldn't be AC. It doesn't really say.

[lorthazar]

The difference is in Voltage. Tasers deliver high wattage at decent Voltage enough that it can seriously mess with your system and yes if done enough times might kill you. Lighting hower is huge wattage at unbelievable Voltage. The result fries your flesh, scrambles nerves, and can literally make an ash of you.

Notice the word can. I have taken 110 often enough to say "Ouch, I know better than that". My father has taken 440 hand to hand and survived (it paralyzed a small muscle in his heart. Countless people survive getting hit by real lightning. Some people have died from lower powered Tasers. Electricity is not always predictable.

[Tarantula]

Alright, lorth, if the voltage is the reason it screws with your system, wouldn't a higher voltage simply 'blow out' nerves causeing even more issues and a higher mod than lesser?

[lorthazar]

Actually I higher Volatge would do so, but past a certain point and you're either cooked or dead first so it doesn't really matter.