Skills, Thoughts on how they might change? Options

[GrinderTheTroll]

So one of the biggest beefs I think many people have expressed is the number of Skills required to use weapons. My idea is something like this:

In the interest of "streamlining" I venture a guess SR4 might bring back more general skills like "Firearms" as opposed to dozen skills it represents in SR3. Maybe choosing "profficiencies" like "Pistols" or "Rifles" would simple remove a generically imposed penalty or something for just using "Firearms". It's sorta like defaulting except you don't need to spend a dozen extra skill points on buying the skill, instead spending points to "buy down" the generic penalty imposed.

[Pthgar]

Streamlining may not involve making everything simpler, it may mean conforming everything to one standard or system. If that's the case, I could see the skill system getting more diverse but really becoming the core of all tests.

[GrinderTheTroll]

[Toa]

I hope the importance of attributes increases. Like adding half of the related attribute as bonus to the skill value. Of course there should be a skill cap then, in order to keep dice pool sizes manageable. And Karma costs wouldn't have to be calculated relatively anymore, since the importance of attributes is already reflected.

Which reminds me... will we keep Combat Pool et al? Questions over questions... where's that fragging devblog?

[Pthgar]

I mispoke, skills would be just about the sole difference between character "classes." Skills would determine more of the outcome than equipment (Decks and Electronics) and Force (Magic).

For example, with a spell there basically is no force. The level of damage or degree of transformation or reality of illusion is totally based on number of successes.

With Decking you would basically be running the matrix "naked." "Manipulating code with raw skill alone."

Having incredible combat skills would make you a street sam.

Cyberware and equipment would become very secondary.

[Zen Shooter01]

There's no problem with the number of weapon skills, because they default to each other at only a +2 modifier. If you have SMGs 6, you'll do okay with Pistols, Rifles, Shotguns, Assault Rifles, Laser Weapons...

[GrinderTheTroll]

Biggest problem with skills was if you played SR2 then SR3.

In SR2 you could have "Firearms" that allowed you pick-up most weapons (Assault Rifles, SMG, pistol, etc) and shoot it with no penalty since you weren't defaulting.

This means if you spend the same amount of skill points on getting say, 5 level 5 weapon skills in SR3, that would be 25 skill points at chargen, opposed to only 5 skill points (Firearms 5) in SR2.

My speculation was basically a hybrid of SR2 and SR3: Conservation of skill points at chargen (SR2), using defaulting penalties (SR3) for "non-proficient" sub-skills (SR4?).

[Adarael]

One major gripe?

Assault Rifles and Rifles should be the same skill. If you can shoot an AR-15 well, and abstract that skill into shooting all SA/BR/FA rifles well, there's no reason a level-action winchester should be totally foreign to you.

[Austere Emancipa...]

Want a bigger stick to beat that equine carcass with?

[mfb]

thinking along a different line, i hope to see attributes have a bigger impact on skills. a guy with 6 Qui and Pistols 1 ought to be a significantly better shooter than a guy with 3 Qui and Pistols 1. there's the slightly higher combat pool, i guess, but what about, say, Pistols B/R?

here's an idea: get rid of defaulting. or, rather, change defaulting completely, so that it's a more integral part of the system. for instance, attributes might add 1/3 their value, rounded down, to the dice rolled on any skill they're linked to. 9 Str gives you +3 dice for Edged Weapon rolls. if you don't have Edged weapons, you only get those 3 dice (no modifiers). or, maybe, make attributes rollable like complimentary skills, though that seems kinda bulky to use on every roll.

[Austere Emancipa...]

[mfb]

maybe defaulting to a related skill lets you roll half of that skill's dice? the pool modifiers would still apply--default to skill, half pool; default to specialization, 1/4 pool; default to attribute, no pool.