![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
![]()
Post
#1
|
|
Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 ![]() |
As far as autofire rules go, the core mechanic in SR3 is... a less than optimal aproximation of what autofire should be.
Personally, I wouldn't mind if what's the core mechanic becomes the Optional Rule, replaced by some variation of the Suppressive Fire or the Searching Fire rules as the new default. For all we know the game's already 90% written, but hey, wishful thinking makes for a nice idle past time. Who else wants to see autofire revamped? |
|
|
![]()
Post
#2
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 112 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Württemberg, AGS Member No.: 2,068 ![]() |
Couldn't hurt.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#3
|
|||
Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 ![]() |
I sure don't. :| |
||
|
|||
![]()
Post
#4
|
|
Immortal Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 ![]() |
i do. can't stand the autofire rules. something like my bullet-per-success rule'd be nice, but i'm probably biased.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#5
|
|
Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,011 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 7,087 ![]() |
Anything to empty those clips faster is good.
SR by nature is surprisingly bullet efficient. Not a lot of bullets get wasted, even on autofire. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#6
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 6,599 ![]() |
i would like to see the auto-fire rules revised, but i'll live if they don't do it.
i know my friends and i were discussing making a homerule for how AF works, and i like what we had laid out, but i've forgoten by now (i moved away from them and haven't played in about a year). really i think they just need a little tweaking from what they are now. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#7
|
|
Chicago Survivor ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 ![]() |
Well, one of the things that makes it so bullet efficient is the smart-gun/link. No wasted bullets walking the arc from target to target. Though i don't recall seeing good rules on innocent bystanders being hit (though, if your good, there aren't any bystanders at all, innocent or otherwise)
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#8
|
|
Karma Police ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 ![]() |
They could probably make it slightly better by adding more wasted ammo (without smartlink at least) and more destruction. But it can not, must not become more complex. Shadowrun is one of the few games involving modern fire arms where it´s not significantly more complex to fire full auto than it is to fire one shot. And that´s the way I like it.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#9
|
|||
Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 ![]() |
I agree there. We don't need something more complex. I just think it's a good time to rethink having the "All or Nothing" approach be the core standard. Right now you're firing a bunch of rounds, and either they all slam into the target or none of them do, under the core book's rule. I'd prefer a system based on the assumption that you're firing a bunch of rounds in an attempt to get some of them to hit. At least 1-3, more if you're really good or have decent recoil compensation. |
||
|
|||
![]()
Post
#10
|
|
Resident Legionnaire ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 ![]() |
Our way was complicated (so sucks).
Say you fire a 6 round burst with your AK97 at base target number 4. The target for the first bullet is 4, second is 5, third is 6, so on... You roll the dice once: We'll say a skill of 4. You get 02 05 04 03. We take the highest number you rolled, which in this case is 5, as the cutoff. Any bullets that pushed the target to 6 or above (in this case, the last 4 bullets) miss. So what our shooter scores is 2 bullets hitting their mark. Incidentally, we scored 2 successes. (1 on the target 4, 1 on target 5 *note: no die gets counted twice btw) Instead of an all or nothing code of 13D (we don't count the first bullet for increasing power), we have essentially a 2 round burst doing 9S (with the two successes). Presto! Way too compicated! But we like it. Still there are plenty here that will say it sucks, but gimme a break, we had to come up with something. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#11
|
|
Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 ![]() |
It's not very complicated at all, and it's one the better houserules I've seen here (been around for a little while, far as I know). I've personally not been fond of it because of what it does with staging (which, in a lot of cases, makes firing a single shot far too superior and reliable). That, and it really, really does not work well with capped recoil and realistic rates of fire.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#12
|
|||
Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 ![]() |
It's funny, in SR1, you could shoot up to your skill+1 bursts (capped at 7) per phase. That means you could have cranked out 63-rounds across a 3-phase Combat Turn! Oh how times have changed! |
||
|
|||
![]()
Post
#13
|
|||||
Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 ![]() |
Rolling a seperate success test for each of those 63 rounds.
I agree. |
||||
|
|||||
![]()
Post
#14
|
|||
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 596 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,112 ![]() |
I was thinking along the same lines. I don't think it's so complicated, but I guess it's a little more complex than the current rule, and then you'd also have to recalculate how much damage you did in consideration of how many rounds didn't hit. |
||
|
|||
![]()
Post
#15
|
|
Freelance Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 ![]() |
It also carries with it the stigma of being -- more or less -- an Open Test. I proposed rules like that about five years ago, and got mixed results/feelings. I like that it's no longer all or nothing, but people hate their Open Tests.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#16
|
|||
Resident Legionnaire ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 ![]() |
How is it an open test? You're not rolling to determine how many shots your firing, you're hitting a target to determine how many of those shots hit. How is it any different from the system now, where 1 freak die determines that your whole +8 recoil burst hit? |
||
|
|||
![]()
Post
#17
|
|
Freelance Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 ![]() |
It's just a form of Open Test, because your highest die determines how many rounds hit. That's, y'know, what's called an Open Test. High die counts, it sets the bar for how many shots hit, it's the cut-off point (however you want to phrase it).
I'm not saying I don't like it -- like I said, I came up with a rule like that myself and have been using it in the games I run for about five years now -- I'm just saying some people don't. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#18
|
|
Resident Legionnaire ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 ![]() |
I guess I can understand your reasoning on that :P
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#19
|
|
Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: 22-March 05 From: Milwaukee Member No.: 7,210 ![]() |
Just use the standard damage code and add an extra die for each round of automatic fire.
Recoil still adds to the target number for the test as normal. How much simpler do you want it? |
|
|
![]()
Post
#20
|
|||||
Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 ![]() |
In the context of SR1: I know it's been a while, but I though each 3 round burst only added +1 to the power level of the attack? I don't recall it requiring a seperate skill roll for each bullet. |
||||
|
|||||
![]()
Post
#21
|
|
Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: 22-March 05 From: Milwaukee Member No.: 7,210 ![]() |
As it stands in SR3...
Each bullet fired during automatic fire (including the first) adds 1 to the power of the attack. (Makes you wonder why people dont do 1 round automatic fire instead of single shot) Each three bullets fired during automatic fire (including the first) adds 1 to the damage level of the attack. Each round fired during an automatic fire attack (including the first) adds 1 to the recoil modifier of the attack. The maximum damage level is still D... extra levels do not apply twords the optional deadlier over damage rule. (Debate that one elsewhere) |
|
|
![]()
Post
#22
|
|||
Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 ![]() |
Because it takes a Complex Action instead of a Simple Action and gives you a +1 TN? |
||
|
|||
![]()
Post
#23
|
|
Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 ![]() |
Another possible reason is that "At least three rounds must be fired in each burst." (sr3.115)
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#24
|
|
Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,840 Joined: 24-July 02 From: Lubbock, TX Member No.: 3,024 ![]() |
If it requires three rounds, then why the rules for a short burst?
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#25
|
|
Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 ![]() |
Because the paragraph I quoted above continues: "If the belt or [magazine] runs short, see Short Bursts, above."
|
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 18th February 2025 - 07:50 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.