 System Crash and AI |
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 Mar 18 2005, 02:55 PM
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#26
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Grumpy Old Ork Decker  Group: Admin Posts: 3,794 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orwell, Ohio Member No.: 50  |
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Mar 18 2005, 03:04 PM
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#27
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The Ghost in our Machine Group: Retired Admins Posts: 166 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Unlisted Datastore Member No.: 52 |
Riiiiight. And the computer is your friend too, I bet.
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Mar 18 2005, 03:29 PM
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#28
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 288 Joined: 3-December 03 From: Boston, Mass Member No.: 5,874 |
I thought sprites bite......Or maybe that's the fairies.
Sure they look all innocent in they're beedy little eyes and cute little shoes.... I'm hoping something big and nasty gets loose in Tir Nan Og and starts chomping on the dandelion eaters. Immortal elves remind me of spoiled rich kids like the Hilton twins ect. They need a good smacking around. |
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Mar 18 2005, 03:34 PM
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#29
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
*grumbles* Fragging Kenders... THEY broke the matrix!
Remember, just because the matrix went down, dosent mean that every computer connected to it did too. For all we know 2000 otaku got tougther and did the digital equivelent of the great ghost dance and blew the whole damm place up. |
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Mar 18 2005, 05:17 PM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 932 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando, Florida Member No.: 1,042 |
Kryton: Good point about the SR4 announcement...but "took down" is a fairly elastic term. It doesn't necessarily mean an extinction-level event/new dark age size catastrophe.
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Mar 18 2005, 05:48 PM
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#31
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 288 Joined: 3-December 03 From: Boston, Mass Member No.: 5,874 |
We really dont' know the scope of the event. That's true but I'm guessing it might be a big one as they're totally revamping the rigger and decker rules. Who knows. It could be as big as the 29' crash maybe bigger? We'll just have to wait and see. I'm guessing it's going to be a big event mainly because the timeline is 5 years later and there's a 2.0 matrix. I'm not talking cataclysm(msp?) think more along historical terms.....Think 1920's.
I'm thinking in terms of what would happen if nodes were attacked as they went online. I'm not saying there's going to be a new dark age. I'm using more recent facts like what happend with the Stock market crash or a major corporate break up. Basically financial markets are based on reliance on communications. Loss of trust in that infrastructure creates instability in the market. When all money, information, and knowledge is digital; and that medium crashes or is brought down your cutting off a major mode of commerce. Money is digital, loose trust in the digital infrastructure and consumer confidence starts to go down. Folks start demanding hard currency, banks have to close they’re doors and financial institutions can go bankrupt or default. There’s not going to be a dark age, more like a depression of sorts. Those sorts of events have a way of imprinting themselves on the psyche's of those who live through them. If I had a quarter for everytime my gradfather told me about the depression and the cost of bread I'd be rich. |
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Mar 18 2005, 06:21 PM
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#32
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Guests |
Um... What? Then what is she? |
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Mar 18 2005, 06:28 PM
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#33
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
A dead decker from Echo Mirage. |
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Mar 18 2005, 06:28 PM
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#34
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
Only not quite dead in the net
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Mar 18 2005, 06:43 PM
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#35
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Guests |
I'll ask again: What is she?
I know who Alice Haeffner was. Alice Haeffner is also dead, and AFAIK buried. Unless you assume the existence of the soul, and the idea that it can transfer onto the Matrix, she's an AI-- an electronic equivalent based on her memories and psychological profile. And use the Edit button next time. |
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Mar 18 2005, 06:53 PM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 288 Joined: 3-December 03 From: Boston, Mass Member No.: 5,874 |
She's a very powerfull omnipotent "Duck". And Hey Crimson what's wrong with Stephen Kenson?
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Mar 18 2005, 07:16 PM
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#37
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Christ. What isn't? |
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Mar 18 2005, 07:26 PM
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#38
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
he has an amazing talent for writing poorly-worded, confusing rules--exactly what SR doesn't need. he tends to make magic more touchy-feely and less logical; i think it should be more balanced. he's pushed otaku towards being Awakened, which is an idea i personally despise.
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Mar 18 2005, 07:35 PM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 288 Joined: 3-December 03 From: Boston, Mass Member No.: 5,874 |
I dunno I kind of dig that. I think too often science tends to focus on the logic and the postivistic rationale taking all the wonder and mystery out of things. I kind of like that approach and think it adds something positive to the game.
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Mar 18 2005, 07:32 PM
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#40
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i don't think touchy-feely should be the only answer, though. i think it takes something away from the game if you disallow a more logical approach. i think both should work, in other words, not just one or the other.
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Mar 18 2005, 07:33 PM
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#41
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 288 Joined: 3-December 03 From: Boston, Mass Member No.: 5,874 |
That's true. I guess it gets into the different traditions.
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Mar 18 2005, 07:45 PM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 932 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando, Florida Member No.: 1,042 |
Kryton: Right, that's what I mean regarding the matrix failure -- it's not going to be a total end-of-civilization thing, like the old Cold War model of after-the-bomb. But, like you say, more analogous to the fall of the Iron Curtain or the Stock Market Crash of '29 in far-reaching effects.
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Mar 18 2005, 07:59 PM
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#43
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 288 Joined: 3-December 03 From: Boston, Mass Member No.: 5,874 |
Ultimately we're going to see some form of literary "Deus Ex Machina".
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Mar 18 2005, 09:17 PM
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#44
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Well, in case you haven't noticed by now, I put a very high premium on things like logic and reason. As for what's wrong with Kenson, let me sum it up in the writing mantra of my mentor (someone who's work for the last 32 years, and counting, has absolutely depended upon his writing skills): You need to be clear, concise, and correct. It's the same mantra apply to everything I write. Kenson has consistently failed on all three points repeatedly ever since he wrote Awakenings. His writing is vague, contradictory, illogical, incoherent, and unreadable. It is bad enough with fiction, but it is absolutely imperative that when you write out rules that people have to follow that you do not fail to be clear. His writing is overly drawn out, wordy, and does not flow. Finally, he has in his fiction, and don't even get me started on his novels, been incorrect when using rules which he wrote himself. His ideas are awful, and his grasp of factual issues is tepid at best. References to the Washington, D.C. area, the government, and issues of common sense have routinely been wrong. After a while, it becomes incredibly annoying. It's also become personally annoying that he picks his favorite characters and locations and runs them into the ground. Show some creativity for God's sakes. And this person has been responsible for most of the magical rules for 3e, and gave us such gems as "Passing through Earth" and a myriad of hopelessly confusing and vague rules for magic. The only good, ever, to come from anything he wrote was that the Enhanced Centering power from the two Grimoires became a metamagic. That's it. |
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Mar 18 2005, 09:22 PM
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#45
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Untrue. We've gotten a few laughs out of some of his other stuff. Pitiful, staving-off-the-tears laughs, but laughs all the same. |
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Mar 18 2005, 10:31 PM
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#46
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,011 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 7,087 |
Wow. Lots of hate for Steve Kenson.
Hey, Steve, if you reading this, I think Mutant & Mastermind rocks! |
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Mar 18 2005, 10:28 PM
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#47
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Guests |
OH, my utter contempt for Kenson doesn't let the other people involved in, say, MitS off the hook.
What amazes me is not that it had to be edited and approved by, natch, Mike. But that apparently none of the 89(!) playtesters--including more than a few people around here--either didn't catch these problems in playtesting, or were ignored. And I don't know which is worse. |
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Mar 19 2005, 01:56 AM
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#48
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
Well, in SOTA 2064, it states that winternight wants to hit the matrix so hard that it would make the crash of '29 look like system burp.. Or something like that.
So,I think both winter night doing something bad,and matrix falling are not too far out in the left feild. |
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Mar 19 2005, 02:19 AM
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#49
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Target Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 18-March 05 Member No.: 7,189 |
It´s the Horrors. Belive me! ;-)
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Mar 20 2005, 09:47 PM
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#50
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,118 |
The one thing I really disagree with, from Kenson's perspective, is that academic hermetics (i.e. the ones that teach classes, develop thaumaturgical theses using a standardized thaumaturgic nomenclature, and actually try to create reproducable results) are "wrong" but shamans, and hermetics with a more holistic/magic-is-magic philosophy (i.e. Talon) are "right". I think both should be given equal precedence and viability.
It even pervades shadowtalk. The Shadowtalk in some magic-related SR3 efforts can usually be abstracted to this: [game-related in-character data] [hermetic poster describing some logical way of looking at it, tha sounds pretty damned absurd] [shaman describing it correctly in less logical terms, or simply declaring once and for all that hermetics "just don't get it"] Really annoying. Am I so wrong for liking magic that can be researched without contacting ancestors with magical Awakened plants, chanting "klatuu verata nicto" six times, and smearing myself in sap and dancing sky-clad? |
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