Hall of shame, The stupidity of Shadowrunners. Options

[Maimer]

Chunky salsa is from one of the first runs I ever played in.

I was a decker, we had a couple of Sams and a mage. We went into a corp building to get some info from their system to deliver to Mr. Johnson. We got in, up to the top floor and find the room in question. What we didn't expect was there to be somebody there. Obviously a decker, and using a much better deck then mine, I tell the Sam to not shot him in the head. Long story short, I get my new deck and hit the system. The corp dude had just enough time to set off the alarm, and security was coming up the elevator. The mage tells me to take control of the elevators, and have the door open about 1/2 a foot so he can toss a concusion grenade in. Thinking he's a little wierd, I agree to do it. I opened the door, he tossed in the grenade, and I closed the door. We heard the explosion, thought there might be a couple survivors, and positioned ourselves outside the doors to mow down anything that moved. I opened the doors, and we were surprised. Chunky Salsa didn't do it justice.

Later that evening the GM explained what happened and how. We where quite impressed with our selves. 8)

[Da9iel]

The doors opened after a grenade in a confined space blew off??? :eek: That's one tough elevator!

[Fresno Bob]

I had a funny incident once, when a couple characters, an elf physad named Sprocket, and a human samurai named Bungee were going through the Barrens, and they got challenged by a few gangers. Sprocket fights the leader hand to hand while everyone watches. Bungee decides to speed things up by shooting at the gang leader, and he of course misses and hits Sprocket, knocking him down and dealing a Serious wound. The gang members run off, because none of them had a gun, and Bungee takes a few potshots at them, then goes to help Sprocket. The conversation was like this.

B: I'm sorry man, I-
S: Who pulled a gun?...They shot me...they cold shot me...
B: Uh...yeah. Yeah, they did...
S: Did you *coughcough* get him?
B: Um...he, uh...got away...The bastard.

[Bastard]

The team enters a hotel chasing down some group of kidnappers or other runners (cant remember now). Jazz (cat shaman) and Mikey (gun bunny), pull outside security (in the hallways and loby) fighting off weak securtiy guards, watcher spirits and what not. Mr. Jizz (our bored sniper) and Tomo (Japanese Physad) chase down two of the runners. Boom. Mr Jizz takes his man down while Tomo chases another physad into one of the rooms. There they pull swords, both have dikote covered katanas. An honorable fight ensues (damn ninja wannabes).

As their battle ensues, everyone else has secured their area and regroup for backup. Mr. J is already behind a couch near the doorway, rifle aimed at the enemy physad. Battle continues.

GM: J your turn what do you do.
Mr. Jizz: I aim
GM: Mikey, Jazz?
Mikey and Jazz: (laughing) we watch.

More melee combat and Mr J aims for another 8 turns or so.

We were going to help but the PC wanted to fight to the death honorably so we all just kept watching.

GM: You all still watching?
Mikey and Jazz: Yep
Mr. Jizz: Im still aiming
GM: Okay...you all aint gonna help.
All: Nope

Finally the GM rolls crazy sixes and hits Tomo with Deadly Deadly Deadly damage (First Edition rules). After reducing to deadly wound, so she is still alive though, here is the final showdown:

GM: Tomo, the physad scores a vicious hit with his katana slicing your left boob clean off, but fortunately missing your heart. Unfortunately you are left seriously bleeding, and falling into unconciousness.
Tomo: No way that sucks
Team OOC: Haha (we all hated that character)
GM: Mr. Jizz, the physad stands straight and bows to you. "Lets settle this like men. Pick up your comrades sword, and sufer her fate....(blah blah, some long spill about honor)
Mr. Jizz: "Uh-uh" Bang.

With 20 rounds of aiming and called shot to the head.

[Critias]

I have difficulty imagining a pair of physads, especially using 1st edition rules (where physads got auto successes, not bonus dice), duelling with dikoted katanas for twenty rounds before one of them got an advantage.

[Bastard]

20 is a bit of exaggeration, but everyone else had finished their "battles" and we had to wait on the "ninjas"

[Janus Wayfarer]

My groups Addition

In the aftermath of a moderately successful run, one of the characters, the aspected conjurer, find that he doesn’t have enough money to pay for his rent. Needing some quick cash he decides to hold up a liquor store.

He doesn’t want to hold up one in a patrolled area so decides to raid one in a z-zone.
The character asks the rest of the team if they wish to help, the troll and the physadept wisely say no, however the decker, (not a combat decker) decides that he will help

The two weakest members of the team, the aspected ork mage with a pistol but no idea how to use it, and the decker, self trained in an arcade pistol journey off to the z zone to loot a liquor store of all its hard earned nuyen.

A block from the liquor store the decker suddenly decided it would be better if he walks to the store so he can mingle in with the crowd and get a better vantage point before the mage shows up, robs the place, and gets out. With no armour, virtually defenceless, the human decker, gets out in the middle of the night in a z zone to walk to the store. The mage thinks this is a great idea, lets him out and drives off.

My fellow GM and I make some quick rolls and sure enough within 5 minutes he is surrounded by ork gangers, the gangers demand a “toll” for the safe passage of their streets. So what does our decker do? He turns and runs, the first 5 shots miss him, but the 6th and 7th ones hits and boosts him up to 9 boxes of physical and sends him sprawling out on the ground

Realizing that he’s in trouble, the decker uses his headware phone to call the mage, just before a large ork knocks him out. Hearing that the deckers in trouble, the mage first uses the photovoltaic paint to turn his car into a lonestar patrol car (non armoured car, looking like a cop car, in a z zone) then turns the car around and races back down the street, intent in ramming the orks.

The orks easily dodge out of the way of the speeding car leaving the mage hurtling towards the downed decker. Knowing that he can’t brake in time to avoid the decker, the mage decides to swerve around him. He promptly botches his driving test and ends up impaling his car on a lightpost. As a result of the botch, it was decided that his seatbelt failed due to the botch and the mage gets ejected through the windscreen. Luckily for him, he manages to soak it down to a medium wound.

The gangers, now laughing riotously at this turn of events, approach the two downed runner and demand that they both strip off and leave them everything they’re carrying. The GMs, being generous decide that if the runners comply, they would be free to go. The runners agree, and after crossing off over 16,000 nuyen of equipment, limp back out of the z zone in with only their boxers and socks. The mage carried the unconscious decker with multiple bullet wounds down the street, where they are promptly picked up by lonestar as they are trying to use a pay phone to call the others to come pick them up. The others refused to help them, and had no part in this affair.

End result: two runners in jail, after what is possibly the second stupidest action I have ever witnessed in game, I may post the first one later.

[Edward]

Just out of interest what where they charged with, as far as I can tell by the time they exited the Z zone they looked for all the world like some unfortunates that got thuged in a bad part of town. If they have sins the cops would take a report and call an ambulance for them, no sin and it gets ignored.

As for the 20 round duel between 2 phizads I can see it. Assuming they have comparable levels in auto success to attack the net successes to stage up damage will be low, combine with good impact armour and lots of soak dice (or auto successes on soak) and they may have some difficulty actually hurting each other.

Edward

[Charon]

Liquor store in a Z zone? In Redmond Barrens, Z zone are things like Rat's nest and Glow City. Where are those liquor stores?

If the cops don't patrol there, you can be sure no delivery truck goes there either. So no liquore store, indeed, no store at all.

And echo Edward : The runner were arrested for what?

No offense here, every Game has its own level of verisimilitude. You want store in Z-Zone, it's your game. I realized early every GM plays has his own version of Shadowrun were what is likely and probable can vary wildly.

But also, the players tend to feed off the environment you put up for them and get confused for a while when it evolves. To be blunt, my player were always at their "stupider" when the degree of "realism" was morphing on them without sufficient warning. Hey I didn't always realize what I was doing, but from 15 to 26 my idea of what makes sense evolved. Nowadays, I give some fair warning early in the campaign to let players know what's up and get them up to speed on where common sense stands this time around.

Liquor store in Z-Zone tells me you don't always bother with things like worrying about how elements interconnects (Store VS their economic environment) yet some of the other elements of your post did show some concern in that direction (The effect of the sight of an unarmored police car in a Z-Zone).

The result can be confusing and lead to "stupid" player who are not quite sure what makes sense or not in the game world.

[Tarantula]

Well if there was a liquor store in the barrens, you know the only money in the cash drawer is whatever the previous robber didn't have time to stuff in his sack before the troll behind the counter pulled out the drum fed enfield.

[Dawnshadow]

Doesn't anyone find that making a botch have multiple side affects is just a little extreme?

I mean.. you botch your drive test, fine, you slam into a lamp-post. That's a pretty brutal failure there. How does botching the drive test make the seat-belt fail though?

I would have thought failing the drive test would be start to swerve but still hit the decker.. and botching it would be start to swerve, hit the decker, lose control and slam into the lamp post.. the seat belt failing? That doesn't make sense.

I agree: What were they charged with? You've got people who look like they've been the subject of a gang beating/mugging. I'd think they're more likely to get dumped at a hospital then arrested.

[Nikoli]

Yeah, that smacks of GM sillyness there. Seatbelts barely fail now. I doubt they get worse in 60 years of development.

[Charon]

[Nikoli]

Well, depending on the clerk at said store, there could be a brisk organ legging business next door quite easily.

[Tarantula]

I've always thought it might be worth it to install just a pnumatic spike where customers stand to pay for their merchandise. Guy walks up, starts reaching in his coat, says "Give me the money" you reach near drawer, start opening it while hitting little button next to it. Guy gets spike from under him up through head. You grab gun from twitching body, hit the release button, toss in him the cart that heads to the organleggers half of the shop.

[Nikoli]

Yup, and the leftovers supply inventory for the McGhouls down the corner

[Edward]

I can see their being places within a Z zone that deal in daily necessities, they are owned or heavily backed by a local criminal organisation (from gang to yacs) there are no alarms other than the sound of the cashers shotgun and most of the goods are stolen.

Robing one isn’t a good idea

Even gangers need to eat and get drunk.

By my reading the GM had the failure mean a crash (but did not hit Decker) and the botch meant the seatbelt failed, it would have made more sense to be “you forgot to wear your seatbelt” but other than that it is reasonable, I see no doubling up. The Decker was not hit, witch was generous, it would undoubtedly have killed him

I still want to know what they went to jail for, indecent exposure dost normally come up if you where robed of your clothes.

Edward

[Charon]

[Sharaloth]

Could be in Puyallup. IIRC there's a lot more Z in Puyallup than Redmond, with a lot less of the garbage-dump or radiation-level badness (sure, badness all it's own, including lava fields and whatnot, but not quite Redmond-level badness). And it's been stated somewhere in the books about armored convoys making deliveries to the various Barrens grocery stores, so I suppose a heavily fortified liquor store is possible.

[Dissonance]

Fortified liquor. Hah, you made a funny.

I need to go to sleep. I can't stop giggling at that.

[Puck Wildhorse, ...]

I think that a lot of stupid PC deaths are made because the PCs don’t share the same understanding of the game world as the GM. In my opinion, one of the marks of a good GM is one who understands this distinction and makes an effort to explain how he sees it to his players. One of the marks of a good player is that he also understands this distinction and, even though he disagrees, is willing to live in the GM’s game world.

For example, my GM has stated that the oceans of the world, or at least the coastal waters near cities, are so polluted that an unprotected character will die within a few minutes as all kinds of nastiness eats the flesh from his bones. I’ve lived in Hermosa Beach (a suburb of Los Angeles) and San Diego all of my life and spent just about every summer day of my childhood at the beach. I know more than a few people who have gotten sick from the pollutants in storm water run off after a big storm, and maybe a few people have caught something and died after years and years of exposure. But no way, no how can the water be so bad all the time that you’d die within minutes. Even with 60 more years of pollution the only way I could see this happening is if you were swimming right at the end of a drain pipe from an industrial plant.

My GM is in the US Navy and has seen more ocean and more harbors than I will likely ever see. And he believes that if the Shadowrun universe came about, the oceans could be that badly contaminated. In his games, you don’t want to get into the water unless you have a dry suit and a full face mask to keep the water away from your skin. Anything shy of that and you’re taking damage.

Now I found this out because my team had some downtime in LA and we were staying on board a sailboat that was anchored off Malibu. My character was bored and said that he was going to go surfing. The GM (and most of the players) said that that was a very bad idea and explained why. Now the GM and I had each read the Shadowrun game books and the novels and we each had an interpretation for how the game world should be. Even though I disagreed, I decided that it was his game world and I was just a player.

The point here is that the GM explained his position to me and let me make the choice rather than just saying that I dove off the boat and died screaming. Even though I personally disagreed, I decided that there was no point in dying just because my character was bored.

It was a win-win all around and we soon got back to the important business of committing crime for nuyen.

[Smiley]

[LinaInverse]

[Edward]

[DocMortand]

Yeah, there are several canon (and non-canon, aka novels) sources which indicate that the sea is not badly polluted. You should point him towards the many critters that live in the ocean, towards several of the novels (Preying for Keeps for one) and maybe sourcebooks such as Cyberpirates.

HOWEVER, I recently got my hands on Target: Wastelands, and they do describe that 60% of UCAS (and CAS)'s lakes were reported unsafe for fishing/swimming/etc. in 2058. The ocean has some areas of toxicity, as well. So the GM does have a canon source he can use as well.

It's definately a far cry from what your GM is requiring, however. *shrug* It IS his game, that's for sure.