SR4 is to 3.5 as...., Should Shadowrun be more like D&D? Options

[lord_cack]

Well, I would say that if it is one thing Shadowrun could do more like D&D is the format of the books. I think that 3.5 Edition Dungeons and Dragons is written in such a way that a monkey could understand it. I understand from a Financial stand point why they don't do things this way. Fan Pro is not WotC, so the cost in production would be enormous.

But, It would be nice to get a "Core Rules Book" that was like the D&D Players Handbook and the Dungeon Masters Guide in one core book, then buy the "Shadowrun Campaign Setting" separate. There are good points and bad points to that.

I think one good thing is that if a person playing SR3 wanted to update the rules and make their own conclusions on how things changed (especially concerning the Matrix or lack-there-of) then he could do that. But, if they wanted to keep the storyline evolving with the setting then he/she could buy the "Campaign Setting Book".

Aside from cost the main problem is that Shadowrun is so tied to the Campaign Setting that it would be difficult to make changes on your own without limiting your future resources (ie Supplements, source books, even adventures).

I think that is part of the way that Dungeons and Dragons can remain so popular is because the rules can change but your campaign probably won't have to.

Even if they keep with the normal Shadowrun Update method, thats fine. But, they could look at how the Dungeons and Dragons books are formatted and follow that theme. Cause they are just so much easier to read and the rules are all together in their specified sections. But I like the italicized examples in the Shadowrun books I think they should keep that.

[Kagetenshi]

No. No, no, no, no, no. Doing so, as D&D has demonstrated, is the death of the tie between the system and the setting.

~J

[Arethusa]

What are you talking about? It isn't inextricable at all. D20 was explicitly designed as a modular system. DnD was intended to make use of this as the core game of D20. There is nothing inextricable about this relationship.

[Eyeless Blond]

And in some ways it's a good idea. Say, for instance, you wanted to have a game where the Tirs, IE, and the stupid raping of California for the sake of Seattle never happenned, where the US is still one nation but it doesn't matter because all the real money and influence is tied up in dozens of megacorporations. Or say you wanted a completely different world, with a Great Dragon or two roosting in every major city (and many places in between), with the metahumans desperately trying to scrabble for the scraps of what the big Ds are fighting over.

These and any number of other things are mostly politics, and not intrinsically tied to the game mechanics. In fact, that first idea I had the technology of the game would would barely be affected at all; only the battle lines would be drawn slightly differently. As it is, though, you're kinda being force-fed the metaplot along with the mechanics. This isn't really a *horrible* thing, as you can always just discard the flavor text and write your own, and the people that care enough to just discard the metaplot will still do it, so I don't really think it's a big enough worry at this point.

If, though, Shadowrun *really* takes off and sells millions of copies or something, then it may well be worthwhile to write an extremely alternate universe sourcebook, like the SR: Dragon Swarm idea I had above, just to show that it can be done. That's just a pipe dream though; one metaplot's hard enough to keep up with. :D

[Garland]

Not to mention that if 3.5 was really understandable by even monkeys, as suggested by lord cack, then why are they having all these multi-part articles on the D&D web site explaining complexities in the rules?

Edit: Spelling...

This post has been edited by Garland: Mar 23 2005, 09:19 PM

[Sharaloth]

Shadowrun is not a modular world system, like D&D is. The Shadowrun rules set is designed specifically for the Shadowrun world (Campaign Setting, if you will). You can divest the setting from the rules (I did it a couple times, years ago), but you end up basically having to re-write half (or more) of the game to make it work properly. Shadowrun is more the setting than it is the rules, witness three current and one coming iterations of rules systems that has kept a living, growing world to its name. I would not want the world info seperate from the core game rules, because that would make running the game less fun. Plus, how could you be able to run a game straight off the core book (as you can with SR3, and I assume SR1 and 2), without world info?

edit: I suppose you could, but it wouldn't really be Shadowrun (assuming new players)

[RunnerPaul]

[DrJest]

Tell me that's a joke.

No, wait, I used to hang out on the Star Wars boards for a while - it probably isn't a joke...

[Adam]

It's not a joke, and it's a totally amazing idea.

[Kagetenshi]

[Charon]

[Kagetenshi]

Eh? How does becoming the new GURPS tap the kid market?

~J

[Adam]

[Kagetenshi]

Ooooh. Missed that post. Ok, never mind, clearly naptime for me.

~J

[DrJest]

[Fu-Man Chu]

Nope, it's not a joke. . .

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=books&n=507846

[Synner]

[RunnerPaul]

[lacemaker]

I used to be very big on disentangling the system and the setting - the GURPS approach I guess - but as I read more of the niche system/setting combo books, it's become obvious to me how integral system design decisions are to conveying to striking the right tone - not about who runs california oviously, but I dark future game is going to emphasise different mechanics and different challenges in the rules to, say, a space opera game. SR isn't as specific in its tone as something like Feng Shui or In Nomine - there's a lot more room to fiddle with which aspects of the game world you want to emphasise - but it's most certainly not generic, which means that a generic rules set is never going to suit it.

[BookWyrm]

Should SR4 be more like D&D. An emphatic HELL NO! Streamline it, yes. Make it easier to play, yes. Keep what makes the whole thing work? Hell Yes!

Keep SR4 the individual game system it is. YOU DO NOT FUTZ WITH WHAT WORKS, and Shadowrun, as a game, scenario, campaign & story, WORKS.

'Nuff Said.

[Ol' Scratch]

I'm not even remotely concerned with the possibility. I haven't seen even the tinest hint that the desigers even contemplated creating a generic system and treating the Sixth World as a tacked-on example of how to make use of it. Dunno why so many are up in arms about it at all.

[Grinder]

Just read the title and my first thought was: "no". SR don't need to be like d&d. In no way. Splitting the main book in two books simply sucks. I don't like that. Pegasus did so with the main rules of Call Of Cthulhu and it's nothing i support.

[DrJest]

[Gilthanis]

Blasphemy! Shadowrun should never be compared with such a pathetic game as D&D. But to add color, you don't have to use any of the background stuff now if you don't want to. That is simple. Just make up any world you want and say there wont be any of these. That is just as simple as D&D only when you read the rules in the SR core book they gave you their version of the game. I personally enjoy the background stuff and the settings. I like the way they develop the story throughout the main books. It helps unify other gaming groups under one generalized world. The worst problem most D&D campaigns have is metagaming or the lack of knowledge in the DM's world. How much should the player know in advance. It is always sad to start a quest as a level 1 character and have to keep asking a DM about general info. on the towns surrounding your homeland because you haven't leveled enough in game to actually have a local knowledge to figure it out on your own.

[lord_cack]