 SR4 is to 3.5 as...., Should Shadowrun be more like D&D? |
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 Mar 27 2005, 01:19 AM
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#26
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722  |
Mmm... it's better in 3.5, but there's still a lot of page juggling to do to get everything sorted. But that's a factor of any roleplaying game. But it's not as well-organised as all that, even so. Example: I went looking for the rules on Darkvision tonight, only to discover that they aren't in the Player's Handbook - or at least, not in an easily locatable form. And that's a racial ability for at least two races I can think of off the top of my head. |
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Mar 28 2005, 05:51 PM
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#27
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 30-January 04 Member No.: 6,043 |
My apologies, but no. D&D has, to some extent, the same problem that SR3 does. Rules have acreted, requiring all sorts of page flipped back and forth between books. And, having sat in on a couple of attacks of opportunity "discussions," I think the clarity of many of the rules leaves a bit to be desired. |
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Mar 29 2005, 04:41 AM
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#28
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Target Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: 28-November 04 Member No.: 6,853 |
I don't understand the problem that DnD players have with Attacks of Opportunity. I never had a problem understanding it (but I think this goes back to my previous statement about the community in general).
As far as page flipping goes with DnD the one thing I never understood was having the "Leadership" feat mentioned in the Players Handbook and the RULES for its use in the Dungeon Masters Guide is just retarded....So I agree that its got its share of issues. I still think its so simple a monkey could use it.... |
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Mar 29 2005, 04:59 AM
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#29
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690 |
That's odd. Did they hide them in the DMG? Offhand, both Lowlight and Dark Vision work out to 60 feet, with Darkvision being akin to thermographic. I never had a problem with attacks of oppurtunity once my group and I started using a battle map during fights. AOs never came up that much when we just kept running everything in our heads. And was I mistaken, or did someone posting under the name, 'Gilthanis' call D&D pathetic? |
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Mar 29 2005, 05:46 AM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 560 Joined: 21-December 04 Member No.: 6,893 |
First, if SR3 was to SR4 as AD&D 2nd edition was to 3.5, I would personally start spraying all the game devs' cars with Silly String. 2nd edition allowed at least a little roleplaying. 3.5 is like a stuffer shack: Accessible to all, and filled with munchie possibilities. (Some guy I know managed to create a character named Pat the Baker, who hit things with a magical spatula and rollling pin. As far as I know, he's at 15th level and going strong.)
That said, I think that a guide to alternate campaign settins might be in order. An all-in-one approach works great for most games, but some of us desire to make our own. (I'm trying to cook up a set of rules for a Cowboy Bebop modification, but so far it's garbage.) If a bunch of GM tools similar to (Gasp!) the 2nd edition AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide were provided to do things like help design demographics and new magical systems, I imagine it would sell quite well. |
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Mar 29 2005, 06:56 AM
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#31
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Target Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: 28-November 04 Member No.: 6,853 |
I would first say that Role Playing is an attitude that while it can be influenced by the system, isn't bound to it. I mean I could play Floyd the Barbarian (2nd level Fighter) In AD&D, just as easily as I could in 3.5 Edition But, 3.5 would allow me to do FAR greater things than 2nd Edition ever could. And whats wrong with having so many possibilities? But I personally would like to see alternate campaign settings as well (I always thought post apocelyptic game with Shadowrun rules set would be good), but I think that should just fall to the player, its a tough task though. |
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Mar 29 2005, 07:03 AM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 139 Joined: 19-September 04 From: Charleston, IL Member No.: 6,676 |
So....you've lost me. Why do you NEED an alternative rule book when the one we have provides the same info. You can cut the story out of the book and still have the same system and gear. I'm missing why they would possibly need to print two books that provide that same info. To me, it makes more since to give the core rules and the cool story line all in one book. I don't know about you, but I hate buying several books to get the full deal. (which we really can't avoid due to the evolving game)
I understand that maybe you are tired of their setting and want a new one...but there is no need to appeal to a very small percentage of the SR gamers that may see it desirable to cut the story. What you need is in front of you regardless of your game setting. Why would they waste their time and money putting out two versions of the same book. Just sounds dumb to me. And yes that name is in Dragon Lance which is not an RPG anymore. They made that game really lame by changing it into a card game. But, to rag on a name regardless where it comes from is hypocritical considering most runner names in SR aren't all that original are they? Most were inspired from somewhere else. Look at many comic books and there goes half your street names. |
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Mar 29 2005, 07:15 AM
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#33
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Target Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: 28-November 04 Member No.: 6,853 |
They did convert it over into D20 system game as well. But, now they quit producing new products for it. |
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Mar 29 2005, 07:27 AM
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#34
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
*Ahem* Wizards of the Coast and their licensee Sovereign Press would disagree with you on that claim. |
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Mar 29 2005, 07:31 AM
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#35
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Target Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: 28-November 04 Member No.: 6,853 |
This is way off topic now, but D20 Dragonlance as far as it being a RPG. But I can't believe they are making it a card game AGAIN....SAGA was so lame....
And this is why Shadowrun isn't a Modular system....thanks for showing me the error of my ways.... |
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Mar 29 2005, 08:26 AM
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#36
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690 |
Sorry, I should've included a smilely in there someplace. :grinbig: I didn't mean that as any sort of rebuttal or attack, but just as an amused, and perhaps slightly ironic observation. |
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Mar 29 2005, 05:45 PM
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#37
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
I have both of the recently released DL RPG books. They are quite good actually, exect for being rife with typos and grammatical errors.
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Mar 30 2005, 11:47 AM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 158 Joined: 4-August 02 Member No.: 3,064 |
Teehee. It can happen to anyone! ;) |
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Mar 30 2005, 12:00 PM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 158 Joined: 4-August 02 Member No.: 3,064 |
While this isn't really the forum for this, I thought I might just correct a little misconception here: In d20, Low-light Vision doubles the radius of any light source that your character is using. Darkvision gives black-and-white (but otherwise normal) vision in up to total darkness out to whatever distance from your character is specified. For most core races, this is 60 feet, but some have 90 feet or even in extreme cases 120 feet. So Low-light Vision doesn't have a range limitation, but also doesn't do anything unless there is actually some source of light present. I think you'll find that darkvision is described in the racial traits section at the start of the book. However, for some more obscure abilities, the Monster Manual is needed. In any case, this information can be obtained for free off the web as part of d20 System Rules Description (SRD). Just Google for 3.5 SRD and you'll get all the important crunch of d20, completely legally, without spending a cent. Now, returning to our scheduled Shadowrun goodness... :cyber: |
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