Magicians Way Adepts, Curiousity In Rules Options

[phelious fogg]

MiTS says that Magican Adepts can Only Initiate to gain power points.. Further more. They can only gain a power point OR learn a metamagic tecnique...

Does this seem to harsh to any of you? I mean if i want to raise my magic attribute by one, thats an initiation. If i want to learn centering thats initiation two.. and I dont get a power point for it?

Whats your take on it?

[Synner]

Aaaaarrggg (again)...

[Cakeman]

Now I don't have Mits here, but isn't it gain a point AND raise your magic by one, or learn a tecnique and something this or that. The way I take it, it's to make sure an adept doesn't buy a bunch of powerpoints and raise his spellcasting-power through the roof. Ok magic attribute limits powers, but surely that's the meaning of it - not making the adept as good a spellslinger as the magicians...

And btw, you can learn techniques from spirits and other initiates, not only through initiation...

I like the adepts following the magicians way... sure, they can't project or even percieve from the start, but they're fun. Personally, I think maybe the drawbacks are a little to steep but then again, hey, they can buy adept powers... some of them are really good ;)

[Abstruse]

Basically, you pick either/or. You can initiate as a mage (get a metamagic technique or the usual mage-type stuff) or as an adapt (get a power point). You can't have both.

BTW, this has been discussed about fifty thousand times on the old forums if you want to search there.

The Abstruse One

[TinkerGnome]

The FAQ has the relevant options. As for it being too harsh... well, if the Magician Adept had the same progression as normal adepts, they would simply be too powerful (you could, concievably, make a physical mage which bested a regular mage in every aspect save astral projection that way). Magician adepts are versitile, but they pay for it.

A solution somewhere in between the normal advancement and what the FAQ puts out might be well suited to your game, though (I believe it would be in most games). It's up to the GM.

[tisoz]

[Glyph]

Your normal Magic rating goes up with each initiation. However, you can only increase your effective Magic rating (for using sorcery and conjuring) by spending power points to increase your levels of Magical Ability. And when you initiate, you have a choice between getting a power point (which you can use to increase your Magical Ability, or to buy other adept powers) and learning a metamagical technique. You also have the options of dropping a geas or altering your astral signature instead.

[Cain]

Am I the only one who thinks that giving Physmages access to normal initiation rules isn't unbalancing? I mean, sure, at huge karma levels they get disturbing-- but so do normal mages and adepts.

Could someone please show me why normal initiation for physmages is a bad thing? I've thought it over many times, and I'm just not seeing it.

[Abstruse]

Because they'd be getting two-for-one then. PhysMages are basically dual-classed (to throw out an icky term from a substandard gaming system). If you allow them to initiate "normally", it'd be like them gaining two levels for every one the regular mage gains. The way it's set up now, they have to choose to either upgrade their magic or their physad abilities. Either or. One or the other. NOT both. Both gets TOO powerful TOO quickly.

The Abstruse One

[DigitalMage]

[Talia Invierno]

Initiation of the physical adept magician (circa March 2002)
Magician Adepts and Initiation - again! (circa July 2003)

That's all, carry on ...

[Derek]

This is one of those debates thats never going to be resolved. Everyone is convinced that their interpretation is the One True Way.

Regardless, I believe that the loss of astral projection is enough of a penalty on magician adepts that theyget normal initiation in my games., with a few restrictions.

That is, when a magician adept initiates in my games, he can either:

a. gain a power point that goes into his magical power, and gain a magician appropriate metamagic

b. gain a power point that goes into other adept abilites, and gain an adept appropriate metamagic

c. change his signature, just like all other mages.

So, more or less like normal initiation, with some (in my opinion, appropriate) limitations.

Either way, do what you think is right in your games, since I doubt you'll solve this debate.

Derek

[DigitalMage]

[Cain]

Exactly. While I understand why they put up the rule in canon, and while I allow physmages to have normal initiations, I don't see how they can become unbalanced in relation to other Awakened. Everyone will, naturally, play it the way they see fit; I just don't see how a physmage can be unbalanced in relation to another Awakened type, with or without the canon initiation rules.

[Herald of Verjig...]

If you were to geas all your magic points as exclusive, then you can switch between mild adept and normal mage, or any other combination with those points. The only other abuse is like why the "Knack" ability isn't in the books, some spells can stack disturbingly with some powers. Even the most disturbing combo would eventually occur with a support mage and an adept, so I see no great danger from the hybrid.

[Zazen]

Notice that other exotic character types are also given power disadvantages. Shapeshifters, ghouls, albinos, dryads, etc. all have difficulties to overcome. It's just another way of discouraging players from flooding the game with unusual characters, robbing them of their specialness.


I also feel that a talented min-maxer can make magician adepts that will significantly outclass similarly min-maxed mages or adepts, but that's unrelated to my point.

[Cain]

[Herald of Verjig...]

The geasa I was referring to was the one available for reduced cost that declares powers geased with it can not be used at the same time as any other powers. The reading I saw was that you could then act as a full mage (minus astral) or use your other powers. It does not make all actions related to those powers count as exclusive actions, so you cound still cast into a sustaining focus.

[Zazen]

[Cain]

Herald: I do see the Exclusive geas as being effectively the same as the Exclusive limitation, which makes it the kiss of death for physmages.

Zazen: Fair enough, although I can't really think of any examples of an abusive physmage that wouldn't have been equally abusive as a full mage or a pure adept. Which is why I asked.