Changing Health Spells, Compiled suggestions Options

[Eyeless Blond]

A third spell area that probably could use some changes is Health spells. Specifically, I think the Increase Reaction/Reflexes I/II/III spells should be scrapped in favor of a single Increase Initiative spell:

Increase Initiative
Type: M Target: (10-Essence) Duration: S Drain: +1(D)
Increase Initiative enhances the subject's ability to react quickly. For each success, up to the maximum of the spell's Force, increase the subject's Reaction by 1 for purposes of initiative and Surprise tests. Additionally, for every two successes, add 1d6 to the subject's Initiative dice, up to half the spell's Force. For example, a Force 4 Increase Initiative with six successes can increase the subject's Reaction by 4 and add 2d6 to his initiative total.
Magical increases to Reaction and Initiative overlap (do not stack) with any other increases to reaction and initiative. In any case, a caster cannot receive more than 4d6 in extra initiative dice from this spell; there's only so much magic can do to make people react faster.

Of course, this assumes that initiative is largely unchanged from SR3, which is not necessarily a valid assumption, Still, sound reasonable? Too powerful? Any other spells you'd like to see changed?

[GunnerJ]

Well, there's something odd about how there's only 6 worthwhile combat spells: manabolt, manaball, powerbolt, powerball, stunbolt, stunball. Actually, I never take manabolt or ball when I can take the stun varieties.

EDIT: Also, your Increased Initiative spell should have been SR3 canon.

[Eyeless Blond]

Combat Spells are coming. :)

[mfb]

edit: nm, off-topic.

[Nikoli]

Also, I'd like to see a duration based on the successes up to the force of the spell in minutes, or chunks of 18 seconds. The +2 tn just plain blows for this spell.

[Dizzo Dizzman]

I very much like this spell. If initiative is anything like SR3, I hope they use that version.

[Kagetenshi]

It helps, but I'm against adding in the Reaction boost. Also against something like Nikoli's suggestion to make it something other than sustained.

~J

[Fortune]

[Eyeless Blond]

[Kagetenshi]

Dispelling.

~J

[Fortune]

[NeoJudas]

[Lucyfersam]

I going to toss my hat in on being opposed to changing it from sustained, if you don't want to deal with the +2 tn that's what sustaining foci are for.

I would also cap it out at +3d6 initiative, as nothing else short of wired reflexs gives 4d6, and I like it that way. I'm torn on the adding to reaction. I think I would go for having it add to reaction for purposes of surprise but not initiative, as I like the phys-ad and cyber initiative increases having an advantage over the spell. Also, traditionally there has been a separate increase reaction spell, which is quite workable as well.

[Wireknight]

As far as the Initiative thing went, I made a Manipulation spell (easy static TN# of 6 versus the Reaction x 2 TN# of a Health spell) that did essentially what is being suggested. It employed some expanded rules that allowed for "epic" castings (i.e. the creation and use of spells that dealt, both as damage and drain, naval-scale, higher-than-deadly damage codes).

At +1d6 it was +1(S), at +2d6 it was+1(D), at +3d6 it was +1(LN) or +3(D), at +4d6 it was +1(MN) or +5(D), at +5d6 it was +1(SN) or +7(D), and at +6d6 it was +1(DN) or +9(D). To cast it at the naval damage codes(which, due to their lower TN#, are more easily soaked if one has an abundance of drain resistance dice), one required a metamagic taken for each naval damage level achievable. Having taken the Hyperexertion metamagic once, one could cast spells with drain up to LN. Twice, up to MN. The progression continued in that fashion to DN. The spell still granted bonus Reaction on a 1:1 basis with Successes, and still granted Initiative dice on a 1:2 basis, with the limit on dice being the cause for increased drain codes. But that's tangential to the subject, and just something I felt like sharing.

While not a rules suggestion, I am a big fan of the idea of complex and powerful ritual magic being employed in the biotech fields to advance augmentations, from tissue culturing to implantation and maintenence of biological systems that are the augmentation (bioware, genetech) or are in some way interacting with an augmentation (cybertech, nanotech). It's part of my ongoing Post-Cyberpunk push for Shadowrun. With magic as a factor, the places technology, specifically biotechnology, can go are very interesting and almost totally unique to the Shadowrun game setting.

[Vuron]

Personally I could see using the +1 to reaction per success but might change the +d6 to every three successes as I get tired of seeing combat mages consistently as fast as high end adepts and samurai. Either that or I'd reduce the effectiveness of sustaining foci to make these less of "permanent" enchantments.

[Rev]

I like the 3 sucesses thing. Vuron is right, spellcasters shouldn't be moving as fast as sams or physads so easily.

I might make it even harsher, +1 reaction per 2 sucesses.

Either way a force 3 would still be giving you that "better than any normal person" edge, but it would take force 6 to be up with moderately fast sams & a high powered or uber mage could still be blazing along with their force 9 or (shudder) 12.


I really dislike the way that the stat boosting health spells have the target number of the attribute effected. The main way those spells would be fun and cool is by boosting high attributes into really high attributes. I think it would be better if it was 10-essence or something. So a mage could boost a physad troll's strength from 15 to 20 so he can pick up a car or something rather than only being able to boost people with low strength to moderate strength. It would allow many more fun creative uses for them, and with the proper drain codes and sustaining rules similar to sr3 (where sustaining foci are quite costly) I don't think it would be too twinky. Quite possibly the mental stat versions should be harder to cast though.

[GunnerJ]

It bothers me how useless the Heal and Treat spells are. I understand the theory behind making the TN = (10-ESS), but it practice it means that the people who take the most hits and thus need the most healing (the sammies) can't effectively be healed magically. I've had new players express the desire to be magic healers, but when I explained how the spell works and the ramifications of this when most of the mundane PCs (and some of the awakened ones too) have Essence reatings below 6, they decide to just take Biotech at a high rating instead.

[Lucyfersam]

I would not agree that Heal and Treat are useless at all. Although, just checking back in the books I remember that we house-ruled Treat back to 8-E target number like it was in 2nd ed., which makes a big difference and I feel should be changed back in 4th ed. Having the spells be based off of essence makes sense, and gives incentive to not wire yourself down to .05 essence. I don't think we've had a person drop below 2 essence in our group in a few years now, due to a mix of wanting Heal and Treat to work and keeping with the flavor idea of starting to go a bit crazy as you get low in essence. They are also useful as the only way in the game to heal a Deadly wound on a run, it may be hard, but I'd say that alone makes the spells worthwhile. I'd vote to keep them essence based but put Treat back to 8-E tn.

[GunnerJ]

Yeah, that sounds more reasonable; just as long as something is done.

[Fortune]