Boosted Reflexes and Synaptic Accelerator, scary fast Options

[fistandantilus4....]

pg. 80 M&M - compatability
"Synaptic Accelerator
This bioware is not compatible with Wired Reflexes or Move-by-Wire systems."

SR FAQ
"Can a character have both a synaptic accelerator and boosted reflexes and gain the bonuses from both? What about a synaptic accelerator and reaction enhancers?
Yes to both. "

Ok, so they can be damn fast. Scary fast ("Scary tree, I'm afraid!").

So with wired reflexes, a character often reacts before he's even aware sometimes. Such as pulling a gun and shooting if someone enters a room loudly, and they're a bit edgy. Hence the reflex trigger.

Move-by-Wire - constant state of seizure. Always ready to go. Doesn't really state over reacting like with wired reflexes. Side effets though, not fully explored (maybe they'll know by SR4)

What about this mess of relfexes though? If you've got reaction enhancements 6, Boosted reflexes3, and synaptic accelerator 2, that's what.... +8 +5d6 to initiative. No way to turn it off. "Boosted reflexes cannot be removed once installed".

So does this guy REALLY flip out when there's a loud bang? Is he totally kosher? Where's the downside? BRef 3 -2.8E (I think, no book handy)
Rc Enh6 - 1.8 E
Syn Acc2 - Bio 1.0

Still plenty of room for other ware, especially with higher grades.

So what would some of the side effects be? Downsides?

[toturi]

Ermm, I think this has been done before. The only flip-out type drawback he'd have is the same as someone with just Boosted of the same level, because Synaptic is natural.

[Fortune]

toturi has it right. Only Initiative bonuses from Cyberwear make a character twitchy. Reaction bonuses, or anything gained from Bioware do not factor into this effect.

[DrJest]

I did all the math on the synaptic accelerator + boosted combo a while back during a discussion on MBW and whether it's underpowered for its costs in cash and essence. To be honest, looking at the sums, I could seriously see even Wired Reflexes falling out of favour in comparison, given the cheaper essence and nuyen costs, at least amongst the shadow community. That the synaptic accelerator doesn't figure towards the "twitchiness" problem only increases that likelihood.

[Edward]

You can do that yes but you could still have the reaction enhancers with the wired reflexes resulting in natural reaction+12+4d6 average = +28

Your combination gave natural reaction +8+5d6 average = +25.5

Wired reflexes provide a slightly better bonus, you decide wether t is worth eth essence.

Edward

[toturi]

With a higher Reaction, you get a better at Surprise Tests too. Just something to bear in mind.

[DrJest]

WR 3 + RE 6 = 6.80 Essence. You would have to have minimum alpha-grade cyberware to fit it all in, skyrocketing the nuyyen cost even further (to a total of :nuyen: 1720000). For the relatively tiny edge in advantage, it really isn't worth it imho, but of course YMMV

[Edward]

It just depends how much shooting first matters to you.

Of cause if you really want to go first you can stack MBW 4 with reaction enhancers 6 enhanced articulation cerebral booster 2 muscle toner 4 and starting int 6 & qui 8 (elf exceptional attribute qui).

If memory serves that is initiative of 25+5d6 min 30 av 42.5 max 55.

And then another 3 dice can be had from a drug cocktail if you don’t mind the risks.

And somehow you need to fit it all in a body without killing it

Edward

[Capt. Dave]

Unfortunately, MBW won't stack with any other reaction or initiative enhancing bio or cyberware, so the reaction enhancements are out.

EDIT: Technically, since enhanced articulation gives a +1 to reaction, it'd be out, too.

[DrJest]

I'd probably let enhanced articualtion go; it seems to fit so well with the MBW.

[Charon]

Yeah, I don't like that combination of boosted and synaptic.

I houserule that you can just use one initiative enhancer. I think they balance well on their but that the Syn + boosted is just too cost efficient and screws with game balance. I have yet to see a canon NPC stated with Synaptic + Boosted, as a matter of fact.

Wired Reflex : Baseline
MBW : Best, most expensive
Boosted : Cheapest
Synaptic : Least cost efficient, Hardest to detect

There, they all have their role and I have all seen them in use in my various campaign. I don't like to see two of them combined to upset that balance. Boosted + Synaptic is IMO too cost efficient.

[fistandantilus4....]

Thanks for the feed back.

I did bother to do a quick search before posting, but didn't find specifically what I was looking for. 'Preciate it.

[toturi]

[Mortax]

[Charon]

Well, let's compare :

Synaptic Accelerator 2 + bossted 3

Cost : 290 000 :nuyen:
Essence + BE : 3.8
Initiative : 4D6+2 (Avg : 16)

Wired 3

Cost : 500 000 :nuyen:
Essence : 5
Initiative : 3D6+6 (Avg : 16.5)

Using Wired 3 as baseline, Synaptic 2 + Bossted 3 is :

42% cheaper moneywise
24% cheaper essencewise
3% slower

Wired 3 costs 30 303 :nuyen: per average point of initiative it provides and .3 essence for the same.

Boosted 3 + Synaptic 2 costs 18 205 :nuyen: per average point of initiative it provides and .24 essence for the same.

A final way to look at it is that Wired 3 cost an additional 210 000 :nuyen: and 1.2 in essence to give you on average an additional .5 in initiative. (Edit) On the upside, Wired 3 do not increase the TN of disease and healing by 1.

Still, I think Synaptic + Boosted is much too cost efficient.

[toturi]

Factoring in Bioware drawbacks and differences in Stress damage for bioware and cyber, it is not too cost (edit)efficient.

[Edward]

also when considering wether or not it fits in your body with eth rest of your augmentations wired reflexes can be graded (and starting at 5 points your going to want to grade a wired 3) but the synaptic accelerator can not and the boosted reflexes can not be removed so you cant replace it with a better grade latter.

That has to be worth something in the final evaluation

Edward

[Charon]

[Charon]

[Tarantula]

You can get boosted removed through genetech, but its costly.

[Edward]

[Fortune]

With the addition of a Reflex Trigger, you can turn Wired Reflexes off and on. You can't do that with Boosted (or the Synaptic Accelerator, but that's immaterial). Therefore a person with Boosted is always twitchy, which is an additional drawback.

[Glyph]

That, and the higher Reaction for surprise tests, are the main advantages of wired reflexes. Plus, without the synaptic accelerator, that's another point of Bio that you can stick in there.

The boosted reflexes: 3/synaptic accelerator: 2/reaction enhancer: 6 combo is a pretty good one for speed sammies (perhaps with some muscle toner and/or enhanced articulation added). But never throw that sammie a "surprise birthday party". :D

[SpasticTeapot]

Well, I seem to have goofed on my definition of Improved Reflexes.
However, the problem of PhysAd cyber-munchies still remains. If an adept manages to Geas away a few points of cyberware, he or she could use the bioware/boosted reflexes combination listed above...and still have 5 or 6 points left to pump dice into things like shotgun skill. 12 dice at character creation is a scary thought, if I may say so myself, especially considering that any PhysAd that uses cyberware and guns is going to have a smartlink and/or a scope. And, of course, PhysAds have that nifty ability to do things like negating damage penalties that ordinarily require expensive bioware.

Of course, there's always my solution to this problem: How can a PhysAd with a heck of a lot of cyberware/bioware find someone to intitiate with? According to MITS, physads and other magic users with cyberware are generally shunned away from magical groups unless they have a REALLY good reason for it. (Natural blindness, for example.) Because of the higher karma cost for initiating by one's self, cybermunchies will quickly be left behind by physads with absurdly high magic ratings.

[DrJest]

Of all the things i want to see dead and buried in SR4, geasing away an adept's magic loss for taking cyber is top of the pile. It should be skinned alive, rolled in salt and thrown into the deepest pits of hell.

Not that I feel strongly about this one or anything ;)