IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Dice pools in SR4-yes or no?, Yet another pointless poll..
Do you think dice pools (i.e combat, control, hacking, etc.) should be maintained in SR4.
You cannot see the results of the poll until you have voted. Please login and cast your vote to see the results of this poll.
Total Votes: 122
Guests cannot vote 
Dan Difino
post Mar 28 2005, 11:03 PM
Post #1


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 11
Joined: 15-April 04
From: Deep in the State of Denial.
Member No.: 6,247



The poll seems straightforward enough, do you like or dislike dice pools (combat, control, sorcery, etc.) and want to see them in Shadowrun 4th edition?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Capt. Dave
post Mar 28 2005, 11:10 PM
Post #2


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 407
Joined: 22-March 04
Member No.: 6,183



I like dice pools. I like the concept, I like the mechanics. Dice pools allow a little bit of extra "punch" to various situations, and allow more decision making freedom, especially in combat.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
psykotisk_overle...
post Mar 28 2005, 11:04 PM
Post #3


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 269
Joined: 8-November 04
Member No.: 6,817



I like how the dice-pools work in the current system. One of the reasons is how they incorporate attibutes into the rolling, wich is why dice pools might not be as important in SR4, seeing as rumour has it that they're somehow incorporating the attibutes in some other manner.
But the flexibility, and ability to focus on some actions make the pools one of the good parts of the system.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hermit
post Mar 28 2005, 11:07 PM
Post #4


The King In Yellow
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 6,922
Joined: 26-February 05
From: JWD
Member No.: 7,121



I like dice pools, the way they work, and the tactical element they introduce. I hope they won't be streamlined away.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The_Eyes
post Mar 28 2005, 11:19 PM
Post #5


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 269
Joined: 25-March 05
Member No.: 7,235



Same here. One thing I don't like about dice pools, though, is how they enforce a classist mentality: only spellcasters have access to/use from a Spell Pool; only riggers have access to a Control Pool. Why should a Rigger be the only one to get his Reaction to use as a dodge pool while in a car, or a spellslinger be the only one to use his Int/Wis to get extra dice for defending against spells?

Actually that last one is based on a flawed assumption; currently it's the Sorcery skill which is used to defend against spells, instead of the corresponding dice pool like it is with every other realm of combat (Hacking Pool for Matrix combat, Combat Pool for meatbod combat, Control Pool for vehicle combat). But it *should* be Spell Pool that defends against spells, to make it more like every other use of pool in defense.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
psykotisk_overle...
post Mar 28 2005, 11:17 PM
Post #6


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 269
Joined: 8-November 04
Member No.: 6,817



Good point Eyless blonde...


So hermit, think they'll ever streamline devs away?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Grinder
post Mar 28 2005, 11:29 PM
Post #7


Great, I'm a Dragon...
*********

Group: Retired Admins
Posts: 6,699
Joined: 8-October 03
From: North Germany
Member No.: 5,698



They are good, add some tactical moments and are easy to use/keep track of. They should make their way into 4th edition imo.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Arethusa
post Mar 28 2005, 11:23 PM
Post #8


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,901
Joined: 19-June 03
Member No.: 4,775



QUOTE (psykotisk_overlegen)
Good point Eyless blonde...

Um. Um?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
psykotisk_overle...
post Mar 28 2005, 11:33 PM
Post #9


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 269
Joined: 8-November 04
Member No.: 6,817



Sorry, I did of course mean "the eyes"
Noone else ever mix those up?

Edit: Ah, it's becuase "the eyes" is pretty new here that i didn't recognize him, and mixed him up with eyeless.
Welcome to the boards.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eyeless Blond
post Mar 28 2005, 11:43 PM
Post #10


Decker on the Threshold
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,922
Joined: 14-March 04
Member No.: 6,156



Er, actually it was me. I'm using the nick for a game on the other forum, and forgot to switch back over.

Also I've been making posts to that same effect in two or three other threads, so it's not surprising you made the connection.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
psykotisk_overle...
post Mar 28 2005, 11:58 PM
Post #11


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 269
Joined: 8-November 04
Member No.: 6,817



Great, maybe I'm psychic to?

I think I'll continue refferring to you as eyeless, even when posting as "the eyes", great way to make people wonder.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dizzo Dizzman
post Mar 28 2005, 11:58 PM
Post #12


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 91
Joined: 23-January 05
From: Washington, DC
Member No.: 7,007



As a SR player I love the dice pools. It allows me to get very strategic. As a GM, they can be a pain during large combats. All in all, I would like to see them back in SR4.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mfb
post Apr 1 2005, 07:25 AM
Post #13


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 11,410
Joined: 1-October 03
From: Pittsburgh
Member No.: 5,670



dice pools are a GM's best friend. they allow you to scale your NPCs to be tougher or weaker, as required. players getting their asses kicked by a few unlucky rolls on their part (or lucky rolls on yours)? have your NPCs start using way too much CP on dodge rolls, and not enough on attacks. to easy? allocate pools more precisely--fudge the numbers a bit, give the NPCs +1cp each. dice pools allow you to control combat and other situations with very little effort.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Critias
post Apr 1 2005, 08:20 AM
Post #14


Freelance Elf
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 7,324
Joined: 30-September 04
From: Texas
Member No.: 6,714



Dice pools are also a player's best friend. In some games all you do is toss a single die and cross your fingers -- in Shadowrun, in almost any truly critical success test your character is going to make, there's something you can do to try and stack things in your favor. You might blow all your combat pool for an over-the-hostage's-shoulder headshot, you might spend karma on a crucial soak roll when running across open ground to grab a downed teammate, you might sink all your spell pool and spend karma on that absolutely vital countermagic attempt... whatever it is your character tries to be good at, you've got the added flexibility and ability of a die pool to use, fluidly, to be better at it when it counts.

As someone who started playing RPG's with Shadowrun, and only later moved on to class based level based pool-less systems? I can safely say the flexibility Die Pools give is one of the major things I've always loved about SR (that and grades of success, and the lack of classes, and...).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jérémie
post Apr 1 2005, 08:49 AM
Post #15


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 138
Joined: 1-September 02
From: France
Member No.: 3,208



I voted yes, but the questions are not well written.

I like the concept, I don't like the execution. Hopfully SR4 will get over the "use 20 d6 for a test" syndrom, so these will not be dice pools per se but I hope the concept remains.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DrJest
post Apr 1 2005, 10:26 AM
Post #16


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,133
Joined: 3-October 04
Member No.: 6,722



Love dice pools, for all the reasons already mentioned.

Also, I don't use dice pools for every NPC. Supporting Artists (security guards, gangers) don't get them - these guys are supposed to be hay before the runners' harvester. Minor Stars (leaders of the above) use the Threat Rating system. It's only Major/Guest Stars that get the full dice pools.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ol' Scratch
post Apr 1 2005, 10:45 AM
Post #17


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Validating
Posts: 7,999
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 1,890



I like the concept of dice pools, but found the execution wanting.

I'm glad they're getting rid of them in their current incarnation because they really were a pain to keep track of (especially when playing with people in a pick-up game that you don't really know or have a reason to trust), though part of me will still miss them because I'm a strategic gamer at heart... and they were just another tool I could use to get the job done.

Now if they simply had a single dice pool -- some kind of Luck Pool -- that you used, I would be cool with it. It would just be another attribute to keep track of, which is easy enough. It's having half a dozen different ones, one of which (Karma Pool) functions like no other one does, that was the biggest problem.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
RunnerPaul
post Apr 1 2005, 10:39 AM
Post #18


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,086
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 364



QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
I'm glad they're getting rid of them in their current incarnation

Has there been offical word on that?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
torzzzzz
post Apr 1 2005, 12:18 PM
Post #19


It's for winners
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 523
Joined: 8-February 05
From: Wiltshire with da shooty stuff
Member No.: 7,067



I put no,

1) because though the dice pools are good they are a slowing factor in the game, especially combat!

2) I have GM'ed my first few games and it is a night mare for me as a new gm to keep track of things! in combat with remebering all the rules my players dice and the people attacking the PC's!

I am sure once i get to grips with this i will not have a problem with the dice pools!

torz x :D
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ol' Scratch
post Apr 1 2005, 01:33 PM
Post #20


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Validating
Posts: 7,999
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 1,890



QUOTE (RunnerPaul)
Has there been offical word on that?

Dunno. But I've gotten the distinct impression that they're all but gone.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Austere Emancipa...
post Apr 1 2005, 01:51 PM
Post #21


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,889
Joined: 3-August 03
From: A CPI rank 1 country
Member No.: 5,222



Darn. I'll definitely miss Combat Pool if nothing like it makes it into SR4.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mfb
post Apr 1 2005, 05:36 PM
Post #22


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 11,410
Joined: 1-October 03
From: Pittsburgh
Member No.: 5,670



i can understand simplifying dice pools, and even getting rid of some of them--decking and rigging are being combined, so a single hacking pool (whee, no name change!) should be sufficient for both activities. you could even get rid of the "dice" part completely--make it, say, a pool that can be spent to lower TNs, or something. but the ability to add oomph to important rolls is one of the truly high points of SR's system.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Rev
post Apr 1 2005, 06:34 PM
Post #23


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 675
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Seattle
Member No.: 2,034



Yea dice pools rock.

Though, like many other people, when gming I don't use them for less important npc's. Instead I use an aspected (ie combat, magical, rigging, professional etc) threat rating so I don't have to keep track of thier pools, but they arent just rolling extra dice on every single test as the threat rating rules at one point suggested (thus giving all npc's spell defense). Since a main goal is to make the game easier for new gm's and players going back toward threat rating is probably a very good idea, seems like half the experienced sr players do this anyway.

I also never give less important npc's karma pool. Karma pool exists to give charachters and important npc's a bit of a hedge against bad luck. As gm I don't need every security guard and summoned spirit to have that hedge. It doesn't matter if they have a bad roll and die. It's just lame gm cheating to have every doofus you run into blowing thier (always full) karma pool on the only two or three rolls they will make in their existance while the players have to decide which of dozens of difficult tests to use thier's on.

I imagine they are to some extent doing this, but a good way to find what rules can be safely tossed on the burning pile or optionalized is to observe which rules are most commonly ignored.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mfb
post Apr 1 2005, 06:50 PM
Post #24


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 11,410
Joined: 1-October 03
From: Pittsburgh
Member No.: 5,670



as i understand it, threat rating was simply added to every die roll the NPC made, right? instead, threat ratings should refresh every round, like other dice pools. that way, the GM still has the leeway that pools give, but he's not stuck tracking quite so many.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Spookymonster
post Apr 1 2005, 08:41 PM
Post #25


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 639
Joined: 22-April 02
Member No.: 2,638



I like dice pools for their tactical flexibility, but I'd prefer a more generic set of dice pools. Instead of combat/spell/hacking/etc. applying to specific skills and/or tests, have pools based on pairs of attributes and and let any linked skill draw from them:

Power pool (Str + Cha): represents a character's force of presence
Health pool (Bod + Wil): represents a character's overall constitution
Speed pool (Qui + Int): represents the character's ability to perceive and react to their environment

Rather than one big combat pool, different combat tests would draw from different pools, e.g.:
- resisting damage and drain would draw from the Health pool
- firearms attacks, dodging, and hacking test draw from the Speed pool
- melee attacks and social tests would use the Power pool

Magic would either need to keep its own pool (which doesn't seem quite fair) or reworked a bit (perhaps draw from the Power pool, with TN penalties if the base attributes aren't 100% natural?).

Refreshing would need a little rework as well. Otherwise, every non-combat test would use the entire available pool every time.

Dunno... just a thought.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th May 2024 - 01:54 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.