 Machine Pistols..., ...Who uses those things anyway? |
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 Sep 18 2003, 01:19 PM
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#26
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Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706  |
Umm... choke is only for shotgun type weapons. The AVS fires solid ammo. |
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Sep 18 2003, 03:16 PM
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#27
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 198 Joined: 30-August 03 From: Upland, IN Member No.: 5,554 |
Well, it only fires Flechette Ammo, not solid slugs like, say, an Ares Predator or Savalette Guardian. You can load flechette into any type of pistol or rifle, or whatever. But only shotguns have an option for adjusting the choke. |
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Sep 18 2003, 03:28 PM
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#28
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Well, the shotgun rules directly relate to the fact that the ammo is not "solid" but buckshot. AVS fire "solid" ammo in the sense that there is only one, solid projectile coming out of the weapon instead of many. |
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Sep 18 2003, 03:44 PM
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#29
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Target Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 17-July 03 Member No.: 4,962 |
Yeah, shotguns fire Buckshot which is much different from Flechette.
The basic difference simplified is simular to the difference between a shaped charge and a claymore mine. |
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Sep 23 2003, 02:56 PM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 944 Joined: 19-February 03 Member No.: 4,128 |
D.o.d.d, could you explain that analogy please?
I believe Buckshot and Flechettes used the exact same rules. As an aside, do you guys interpret the AVS firing a cluster of fletchettes at once, or is each "shot" actually a short burst of very small rounds? |
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Sep 23 2003, 03:10 PM
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#31
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Who needs machine pistols? Just get a regular .40 S&W Glock and add a Fire Selector System to get something that can do this. :D
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Sep 23 2003, 03:17 PM
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#32
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
No, they're not. I was previously somewhat wrong (wrong in the facts, but the game effects were the same as I was arguing). Flechette ammunition is:
However, the rules for setting a choke are under the Shotguns heading on page 117. Only shotguns get to adjust the choke and get a benefit for hitting at distance. The AVS fires a small cluster of flechetes, but at maximum range, the spread probably isn't significat enough to warrant any hit bonus or dodge penalty. |
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Sep 23 2003, 03:32 PM
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#33
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Target Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 17-July 03 Member No.: 4,962 |
I'm talking pure logic in that comparasion. Not rules or anything else. It's not an analogy of anything.
A flechette round works like a claymore. In fact, a claymore is little more than a oversized shotgun shell. Many beads are flung in a direction at high velocity. Each one is miniscule in effect, but combined in the hundreds (700 something in claymores) they are utterly destructive. I've always thought of flechettes as a series of needles which focus the damage onto the needles points, which acts like a shaped charge, doing damage by forcing everything onto one point and in one direction instead of spreading it over a larger area. Unfortunatly, such a design work best when colliding head on, for the increased force and smaller area to destribute the force it is much more vulnerable to deflection (aka. the armor rules). This is one reason shaped charges have to be placed with such care. Edit: Sorry, I've just been told that I'm thinking of 'Shaped Charge Warheads', which create a jeat of heat to melt through armor. Everything else is still the same. |
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Sep 23 2003, 11:58 PM
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#34
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
If I recall correctly, the AVS is listed as firing a single flechette sliver as opposed to a cluster. The AVS has no choke-like mechanism that is normally present with buckshot/flechette type weapons. |
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Sep 24 2003, 06:55 AM
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#35
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 128 Joined: 19-March 03 Member No.: 4,292 |
Okay this was the part i was missing. If the AVS has no choke then it is not as good as i feared. BUT if it has no choke, how are the TNs affected by the flechettes? No TN-Modifier for the AVS? Or is it like Choke 2, 6 ,10? I remember reading in Cannon Companion, that the T-250 can just have a maximum choke of 6...
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Sep 24 2003, 09:23 AM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 614 Joined: 17-June 03 From: A safehouse about to be compromised by ninjas Member No.: 4,754 |
Flechette ammo does jack for anything involving shooting unless fired from a shotgun. All it does is change the damage code up a letter against an unarmored target, or use double the impact armor if not unarmored and that value beats ballistic. Basically the target is hit by a bullet fragments designed to tear and cause more trauma. Not a cloud of shrapnel, a small cluster of bullet fragments.
Flechette ammo from a shotgun is treated differently. In this case it counts as buckshot, and fires enough to create a cone of effect; this is where choke rules come into effect. Most full shotguns can have choke from 1 to 10, sawed-offs or some pistol sized ones are limited to 6 which is where youre getting that number. The only TN to hit mode possible from an AVS is the +1 dodge tn penalty for shooting a busrt at the target, same as with any other burst fire capable gun. |
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