 Who's Going Down? |
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 Mar 31 2005, 10:03 PM
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#101
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The King In Yellow  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121  |
Unfortunately, I live in Germany, play exclusively with Germans, and can't avoid the occasional time they want to run at home ... or what used to be their home ... and on top of that, in Berlin, arugably my least favourite part in my least favourite book. >_<
And sorry, wasn't sure 'bout the sarcasm, and talking about the Germany SB gets me all worked up. :) Besides, it's late. |
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Mar 31 2005, 10:13 PM
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#102
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
As shallow as this is for me to say, not a lot will stop me from buying 4th edition shadowrun, regardless of how it goes... Except if they offed or seriously screwed over Ares. That would make me not ever use the new edition of the game. Ares is too entirely ingrained into my game for me to alter that, and just the fact that they would do that would make me absolutel detest the edition.
It even sounds silly to me, but that's absolutely the truth. |
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Mar 31 2005, 11:00 PM
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#103
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 256 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,709 |
Every place in Shadowrun is screwed up. CFS is silly. Seattle doesn't make sense. NAN don't make sense. UCAS and CAS don't make sense. Denver really doesn't make sense. All of them are exaggerated and mostly unrealistic. The fact that Shadowrun relied on somewhat hyperbolic, media-induced envisionings of real settings was part of the charm. |
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Mar 31 2005, 11:46 PM
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#104
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
So you're complaining about ... what?
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Apr 1 2005, 01:03 AM
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#105
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,978 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 500 |
That Tom Dowd and Co. were on crack when they wrote most of the major locations...
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Apr 1 2005, 01:03 AM
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#106
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
I agree. I felt they managed to recapture that with SoE and most of the locations. The dark and power hungry RCC, the racist Austria, the xenophobic Swiss, the militantly open Czech. Cynic wants to know what other places have had nothing good fall into their laps? How about Tsmishian? The Ute? South America? Africa? Even Japan, where the corps may rule and the nation has power, but there the people are slaves in all but name, slaves to technology and culture. Some nations and cultures were wiped from the face of the Earth (Madagascar being only one). And yet California has a chance to be free, it's own nation, it's own power. I'd not complain because the journey is hard, that's what makes it fun to play in. But, I've started to repeat myself. |
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Apr 1 2005, 01:26 AM
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#107
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,978 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 500 |
It didn't for me... |
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Apr 1 2005, 01:30 AM
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#108
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
It "wasn't" for a lot of people. Many don't see the humor in it, and maybe that's because they're not smoking the same crack or they wanted it to be a serious setting. It wasn't meant to be, originally. It was meant to be a parody of a dark future, a fun house mirror of our own world. And, whee! I am repeating myself.
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Apr 1 2005, 01:32 AM
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#109
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,978 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 500 |
SR never presented itself as a parody of anything.
Paranoia may have, but not SR. SR said everything with a straight face. |
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Apr 1 2005, 01:35 AM
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#110
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Would you bet on that?
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Apr 1 2005, 01:45 AM
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#111
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
And if so, how much?
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Apr 1 2005, 02:04 AM
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#112
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 256 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,709 |
Parody isn't quite the right word, but the very nature of a dark future is to exaggerate. You can make it straight and turn into horror, or you can make it with a corner of its metaphorical mouth turned up, and make it a grim but humored adventure. Shadowrun had its horror-induced moments (Bug City, Renraku Shutdown), but is mostly the latter.
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Apr 1 2005, 02:16 AM
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#113
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
You're right, parody isn't really the right word. Perhaps "taken with a light heart" or as you suggest with a smirk...
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Apr 1 2005, 10:41 AM
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#114
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
And sometimes, the pendulum swung full over to the other side, and you get stuff like the original Food Fight in the SR1 core rulebook. The 3rd edition remake in First Run was ok, but it missed some of the essential flavor. |
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Apr 1 2005, 11:33 AM
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#115
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
GRROOOOAAAANNN!!!! :P |
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Apr 1 2005, 11:39 AM
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#116
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
I dunno, the core book of SR1 might have been a parody, but apart from a few moments of a bit tongue-in-cheek, the setting was dead almost serious ever after (or Tom Dowd's humour was too subtle for me). That's how I and most others know and play it. That's how we'd like to have it, and from SoE and RA-S and other recent books, I guess that's how the authors envision it, too. It might have started out as a parody of Cyberpunk, but it evolved into a serious setting of it's own right.
The Germany SB wasn't just not serious and laden with prejudices, it was also simply badly written. |
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Apr 1 2005, 01:37 PM
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#117
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 256 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,709 |
The Germany sourcebook wasn't written by the FASA team. The european SR developers had more or less free reign, but most of their stuff was so whacked out and/or bad that it couldn't be reconciled with what the real Shadowrun line was. Which is why it never got to the U.S.
When I say that there was humor, btw, I do not mean that the books were not written more or less straight; if the pages were filled with winks and nudges from the authors, then it really would be parody. The setting takes itself fairly seriously, but we are not meant to. I look to film for an example: movies with that hard, dark edge, like The Maltese Falcon, Pulp Fiction, and even currently Sin City are dark, even depraved stories, but they are not really intended to be totally depressing. Rather, they are to be gleefully enjoyed for their bleakness and impossibly hard edges. If you take Shadowrun too seriously, it turns into Blade Runner, which had the look down pat, but had no sense of humor. That was a dry, dry movie. |
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Apr 1 2005, 01:47 PM
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#118
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Incorrect. FASA published it in the 7200 line. Click the link to read more. Thus, most of it, except for the really warped parts, made it to canon. |
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Apr 1 2005, 01:55 PM
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#119
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 256 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,709 |
"It" is the pronoun of "stuff" not "The Germany Sourcebook." Most of the stuff made by the Euro SR teams never made it to North American shores; Germany SB was the exception, and even that, I believe, took some re-writing as it was translated to try and make it fit.
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Apr 1 2005, 02:06 PM
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#120
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Okay, my bad then, I guess. :)
The equipment, Hamburg, the contacts, and I think some snips in Berlin never made it. The bulk did and entered canon in all it's stupid fantasy-ish pre-bismarck small-scale monarchy uglyness. I don't give a damn about the Glock Drachentöter, or Hamburg for that matter (though it was actually one of the less sucky chapters) ... it'S the entire setting that was just WRONG from the start. |
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Apr 1 2005, 03:14 PM
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#121
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,047 Joined: 12-November 03 From: Perilously close to the Sioux Nation. Member No.: 5,818 |
I enjoy the SoE conception of Europe, and lacking Germany, I find it pretty cool and fun. I think a lot of people are missing the whole "reversion' kick in SR. We have new Jihads that "happen" to follow the old Jihad routes. Greece is very open... because it has been repeatedly invaded.
The only good thing to come out of California is me. And the only reason that works was that I was born on Camp Pendleton. As for the purpose of the thread, I doubt any mega will die. Although Novatech may take a major beating, Villiers still owns the seat. Entirely owns it, so anything attached to that corp will be a AAA. And we need ten megas. I mean, the Big Nine? |
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Apr 1 2005, 03:38 PM
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#122
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Imo the German sourebooks suck alltogether. They have some nice ideas in it (i liek the flood which destroys big parts of northern Germany), but stupid shit like Berlin or all the small-scale kingdoms are shitty stuff. I have the impression that the german writers try to be "better, faster, more" than their american coutnerparts. North America got it's elven country? Ok, we have one too. North America scattered in many small countries? Ok, we can do so too.
Bah. :S |
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Apr 1 2005, 04:01 PM
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#123
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 256 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,709 |
The jihad stuff is blah; impractical to play with, and far too close to reality for comfort. It's one of my least favorite additions to the game over the years.
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Apr 1 2005, 04:20 PM
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#124
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,978 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 500 |
I could figure on the Jihad. It makes sense in a rational manner.
However, simultaneously combining a world where nation-states are weak, as is religion, with dark and conspiratorial Catholic church (beyond it setting off alarms), made no sense. Nor did the UK (WTF?! Lord Protector???), or...Anything, really. Europe in SR makes no sense, period. Asia (what I've heard of it) makes some sense. I could almost see a reborn militarism and the like in Japan. China splitting up agrees, frighteningly, with some scenarios of "The day after" a CCP collapse. The not-very-strong SE Asian states collapsing, OK. Oz is a bit screwy, but...Manastorms make that make sense, barely. Africa makes sense, even (sort of). I could see a general collapse of state structures in Africa, without even blinking. South America I know too little about to speak of. North America...Bloody hell, that makes more sense than Europe, but only barely. It's not as insulting to my intelligence, either. In short: SR's writers coulda used a serious clue about politics, international relations, etc. Even if one blows the theory to hell, some of the changes make no sense, even accounting for the Awakening and stuff. |
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Apr 1 2005, 05:02 PM
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#125
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Incidentally, that was the first thing I thought when I read that thing too. I was especially pissed about the resurgence of monarchy. I mean, I'd really rather see a Fourth Reich happening. But worst of all was this ultra leftist university student black block idea of anarchism gaining a foothold in Germany's mainstream. RIGHT. Anarchist Germans, makes about as much sense as united Balkanese. :P
Yeap. But you have to hand it to the current team that they brought some sense back into SR's background, working with what they had. And as for NA, I like the feeling of a major war brewing there. I'd actually like to see one, if only because NA could really use a major shakeup. Not that I am sure there'll actually be one, though. I just hope it won't mean American Restoration. that'd piss me off. I like the SR world better without the US reintroduced through the back door. |
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