 Who's Going Down? |
  |
 Apr 1 2005, 05:26 PM
Post
#126
|
|
|
Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722  |
The UK... kind of made sense, although it was a little obscure. We'd been suffering under a fairly hardnosed Conservative government for a while, and the predicted backlash that unexpectedly took the Greens to power was not unreasonable. At the same time, the structure of British government would lend itself to the rise of a bastard like the Lord Protector (a title inherited from Cromwell, by the way, it's not an original one).
|
 |
 
|
|
Apr 1 2005, 05:46 PM
Post
#127
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 7,185 |
I actually kinda dig the London sourcebook as it was somewhat good at evoking a sinister feel (Knights of Snowdonia to the contrary). Personally I figured it was going for a feel similar to that BBC House of Cards miniseries. Francis Urquhart would be the perfect concept for the Lord Protector.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 1 2005, 06:29 PM
Post
#128
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 256 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,709 |
Whether it makes sense or not is not really at the top of my list. Whether it's FUN is. To actually make use of the jihad is nearly impossible. I can reasonably extrapolate enough information about locations in the U.S. or even Europe from my own knowledge and experience to run a campaign in those settings, but I can't do that with the middle east. Plus, in order to make use of the jihad, I'd either have to find it lots of fun to mull over complex sociological issues, or enjoy running a 'Whack-a-Muslim' blow away the terrorists game. Neither of those comfortably fits with any SR game I've ever experienced. As for 'common sense', in my opinion the attempt to 'normalize' SR is responsible for the blandness of the recent books. It's why I don't like SoNA or SoE much. Shadowrunning isn't a sensible career, and its world is not a sensible one either. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 1 2005, 06:46 PM
Post
#129
|
|||
|
Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
In the newest german book ("Brennpunkt: ADL") the anarcho even run the shadowland-equivalent. It sucks. Reads like the political fantasy of a 15-year old nerd. So bad, so sad. :( |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 1 2005, 07:01 PM
Post
#130
|
|||||||
|
The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Well, propably, that's something more geared for Europeans, who have more than their share of Arabs, and hence, are much more familiar with the culture. And I disagree playing a game involving the Jihad is impossible. the players could be doing the dirty work for one of the factions, assasinating operatives of a Jihadist cell on behalf of the Mossad, or work for the terrorists (now here's a novel idea!) and provide them with intelligence because the terrorists figured out they'd fit in better with the locals than a couple of Middle Easterners. Those are just examples, I'm sure it could be used in more ways. :)
Well, in my opinion, that's what makes the recent book worth their while. Now, we can agree to disagree or yell at each other.
YAH! I browsed though that book briefly, but I didn't really read it, a couple weeks ago. And I got the feeling, when reading the original Germany SB, that the Berlin article was written by a 13 year old punk anarchist wannabe (type juvenile may day spectator). Maybe it's the same author? |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Apr 1 2005, 07:14 PM
Post
#131
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 256 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,709 |
Assassination was never big in my games. Working for islamic terrorists, even less so. It's just not something that ever jived with SR style.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 1 2005, 07:37 PM
Post
#132
|
|
|
The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Your style maybe. Certainly not mine.
Luckily, this game can be played more than one style. And that's the strength of the current source books - they offer a little bit of everything. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 1 2005, 07:58 PM
Post
#133
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 256 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,709 |
If the strength of the current sourcebooks was that they offered something to everyone, I wouldn't have any complaints.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 1 2005, 08:31 PM
Post
#134
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
We've been over this and we're all better agreeing to disagree and moving on.
The best response we can offer is that the newest sourcebooks try to offer something to everyone. Whether you agree with the results or not is besides the point. It's one of the things Rob drills into us and at least as far as the developer is concerned that's what's being done (otherwise he'd edit relevant changes into the material). Even a book as naturally high-powered as Dragons of the Sixth World has literally dozens of hooks to be used by players who play street level campaigns and are never going to come into contact with the greats mentioned therein. Every writer is well-aware that we're never going to satisfy everyone. Its actually counterproductive to even try, so as writers we'll settle for satisfying the majority of players - and make no mistake both in terms of sales and fan reviews the current crop of books have proven popular with the majority of players. IMHO, and this in no way reflects FanPro's or Rob Boyle's opinion, if the new approach means drawing new fans at the expense losing a few old timers who are too attached to a percieved "golden age" when Shadowrun material supposedly matched their vision of the game, then so be it (strange how stuff like the Jihad was introduced and entirely developed in First Edition by the developers at the time and only recently revisited in SoE). I've personally met 3 groups of players (upwards of 13 players) who have either gotten back into SR, or have started playing it for the first time since (and largely because) SoE came out - and I live in the ass end of Europe where RPGers are few and far between. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 1 2005, 08:37 PM
Post
#135
|
|||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
I think it would be fair to say Europe has at least 3 ass ends, but at least here RPGers are dime a dozen. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 1 2005, 08:50 PM
Post
#136
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 256 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,709 |
Obviously, if Shadowrun is doing much better financially, then I'm wrong. My impression, however, is that sales are increasing in Europe, but not in the United States. I gather this from personal interaction, as nobody I know wants to play SR anymore, and from the fact that I'm hard-pressed to find current Shadowrun books on shelves anymore. And if the game is to be a European Shadowrun instead of a North American one, I think that's a shame... but c'est la vie.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 1 2005, 09:01 PM
Post
#137
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 27-May 03 From: Detroit Member No.: 4,642 |
Really? We have more SR players than ever around here (well at least since 92-93 when I started playing.) I find books everywhere; comic shop, FLGS, hobby shops, even frelling Borders (in both the stores near me for crying out loud!). Whats more, they dissappear. I can't be sure, but I think that means they're getting sold.
[edit]One thing I do to get people interested is to tell them that SR was invented by the same guy who created HeroClix, MageNight and BattleTech (the PC game is popular). All popular games. People who like them tend to give SR a try, in my experience. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 1 2005, 08:55 PM
Post
#138
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
I strongly suggest you take a better look round. Even a cursory glance over DSF's main forums will show there's been a major influx of new blood over the past couple of years - and it isn't European. Distribution is better now than at anytime since FASA's heyday and there's a reason the SR4 annoucement got the visibility it did at GAMA (check out some of the RPG sites covering it).
As for financial situations you're barking up the wrong tree there. The fact that some of the recent books (like SOTA63 and SOE in fact) have almost sold out their initial print runs (which as has been mentioned elsewhere are typically larger than industry standard outside the big boys like WoTC and WW) in under 2 years in the current market is telling. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 1 2005, 09:01 PM
Post
#139
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 7,185 |
SR is a decent seller if not spectacular. I really don't see it coming that close to nWoD or Exalted numbers and certainly nowhere near WotC/Hasbro numbers. I think if it can roughly compete with Unisystem or Tristat it will be doing pretty good.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 1 2005, 09:16 PM
Post
#140
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 27-May 03 From: Detroit Member No.: 4,642 |
My impression is that SR/BattleTech are a distant third with WotC in first and WoD second. If that's acurate then SR/BT are really leaders because you can't really compare them to giant's like Hasbro or other multi-game systems.
Justmy impression. I could be wrong since I lack any hard data. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 1 2005, 09:19 PM
Post
#141
|
|||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
Here is the thing. Z-Ic and HKB aren't evil. they do not do evil things for the sake of evil.they are in for the money. They would make the earth into Eden, if that was what it took to make money. Aztech seems to go for the uber power. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 1 2005, 09:32 PM
Post
#142
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 226 Joined: 29-July 03 Member No.: 5,137 |
Actually, last I checked (which admittedly is few years ago now) WotC was the massive #1, with SJ Games and WW competing in the #2 and #3 slots. I have no idea how far behind the #2 and #3 spots SR is, though my general impression is it does pretty well competing for the remaining market share.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 1 2005, 09:44 PM
Post
#143
|
|||||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
How about Tsmishian, is a few hundard thousnad poeple in area that has little to offer most people. It had at least the brief repraise of having a major mega corp backing it up. It has any army. CFS doesn't. Look at where the Ute is now. They do not have the land of plenty eaither. Aferica, at least the aprts you are talkign about now, are from wha tI gather just under diffrent types of bad things. They are not any worse than they are now,at least compared to the rest of the world. I will grant you china is fucked up, but it still has it moments. It has good things hapen to it. Japan, Mexico are rules by mega corps...Scan this most of the world is ran by mega corps. Germany is off and I don't like it, but I can see it. I could see that happening in Califonia, hell I would be damned happy if that was happned to Cali, over this bat shit. CFS has been invaded by 5 nations, and has not been able to stop any of them without outside help. It stoped the Tir only by giving up a large plot of land to a dragon. It Stopped Aztland by given up San Fran. It stopped Saito only by the graces of Ares,and the fact that Saito's force were spread way to thin.. It stoped the Ute by the fact that Ute do not have enough resoucres for a war! It stopped the PCC..Wait it didn't the PCC stopped themselves. So In a nation of 18,000,000 people with a strong economic backbone, that has been ivaded no less than 4 times before Saito went all Uber alies, they did not feel the need to have an army.Why? |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Apr 1 2005, 09:48 PM
Post
#144
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 27-May 03 From: Detroit Member No.: 4,642 |
Oh yeah, I forgot about Gurps, but that falls into the multi-game systems catagory. They are inherently more marketable. So SR is a 4th runner-up to the Big 3. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 1 2005, 09:52 PM
Post
#145
|
|||
|
Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
I thought there are a lot more people living in CalFree? Have to check the book soon. ;) Guess they don't have an army cause the land is so heavily divided in small groups. You know, every town has it's own milita and nobody's caring for the central government. Sometimes people simply act stupid. @Synner: I have the impression that SR is a good seller in germany. We have a veryx big and active (and growing) rpg-scene over here with a lot of dedicated SR-fans. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 1 2005, 10:10 PM
Post
#146
|
|
|
The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
I second what Grinder says, SR is among the strongest games in Germany, closer to WoD and The-Game-That-Must-Not-Be-Named than from what I gather it is in America. Maybe the Germany books actually helped in that.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 1 2005, 10:15 PM
Post
#147
|
|||
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
I'm aware of SR's strong fan-base in Germany (I was at RatCon a couple of years back and the number of SR tables was impressive) and elsewhere in Europe and I'm also aware that its ridden out the current market slump relatively well (this despite the remaining issues with DidS2 and the adepts in SOTA64 :P). My "sources" tell me of very positive receptions to DotSW,SSG, MrJLBB and even SOTA64. Thankfully SoE was particularly well recieved in Europe in general, and actually earned significant praise from locals that hadn't been happy with DidS(although I'd like to underline that FanPro D freelancers were deeply involved in SoE and several projects since), London and the unofficial France sbs (which is all we could ask for as writers) - so much so the initial shipment to the UK and Germany sold out within the first couple of months according to my sources. All this is good and well but it needs to be said, the main RPG market remains America, and you have your head buried in the sand if you can't see Shadowrun is on a roll. In a difficult market, FanPro has been doing admirably well. Sales have been consistently good and the strong release schedule underlines this (there are precious few RPG companies beyond the big boys that are putting out 4-5 products a year in support of a single gameline/universe). But far more important than that is the number of people getting back into SR and the number of people willing to give it a shot because they've heard its so good (and they aren't hearing about First Edition books either). Personally I think the next few books will blow people away and close SR3 with the bang it deserves, but then again I'm biased. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 1 2005, 10:22 PM
Post
#148
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 7,185 |
Actually the numbers are and this is TT RPG no CCGs or Wargames
WotC - 43% WW - 22% SJG - 5% AEG - 4% Fanpro - 3.5% Palladium - 3.5% Most of the rest linger down in the 1-2% of sales. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 1 2005, 10:27 PM
Post
#149
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 27-May 03 From: Detroit Member No.: 4,642 |
Who' AEG?
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 1 2005, 10:20 PM
Post
#150
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 7,185 |
Alderac Entertainment Group
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 29th November 2025 - 01:29 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.