 Who's Going Down? |
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 Mar 30 2005, 12:40 AM
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#26
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Resident Legionnaire  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550  |
I'd prolly stick with BC's. Nukes are really expensive if you plan on having them any longer than the time it takes to build them and blow them up immediately. With the additional benefit of leaving the place somewhat intact. Oh, and sorry for not adding anything to the topic either :wobble: |
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Mar 30 2005, 01:02 AM
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#27
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I still say, and have since I first read the 'blurb', that it's Novatech, and drastic action is that they merge with Transys Neuronet to implement the new WNI.
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Mar 30 2005, 01:11 AM
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#28
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Of course you've got to remember that there's a five year gap in out knowledge. For all we know whichever corp it is could be brought low by some new situation or chain of events that happen within those five years and has absolutely no relation to any current plot line.
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Mar 30 2005, 01:16 AM
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#29
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 227 Joined: 18-August 03 Member No.: 5,513 |
Novatech makes sense if the Matrix is going to go down the toilet.
And apparently it is but.... On the other hand, maybe they're the ones that engineer that and come up with the new Wireless Matrix tech, putting everyone else in jeopardy... Renraku seems pretty vulnerable to me too though... Aztechnology has the ever-hating attention of Ghoswalker now... Mitsuhama is involved in a very pointless brushfire war in Tshimshan... That's my final four for corps that could be in trouble. |
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Mar 30 2005, 01:36 AM
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#30
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
You have no idea how little I care for Seatle. No, that would not make me happy. I do not want Califonia Uber Alies, I want Califonia to get treated with just as much respect that they give just about evry other part of the world. The Texans, wile they still carry guns, and hate the Azzies, they aren't reduced to sterotypes that are not real, and two could not be real. I would like to see another place in the whole world of shadowrun, that so radically diverts in only bad ways from what is, or it was 15 years ago to how it has been treated in shaowrun. Yes, some other places have changed in huge ways. Seattle is a place that people world wide care about. The Tirs, and the NAN..They seem to have gotten some nice goodies,and have changed about as much as CFS has changed. But I repeat, I have yet to hear or read of anything good happening to the CFS. Nothing. |
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Mar 30 2005, 02:13 AM
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#31
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,012 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
1) Japan.
2) Mexico. ~J |
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Mar 30 2005, 03:23 AM
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#32
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
3) China
4) All of sub-Saharan Africa 5) South-east Asia |
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Mar 30 2005, 03:38 AM
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#33
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,012 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
5) Denmark. For all your complaining about California, your living area isn't waist-deep in toxic sludge.
~J |
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Mar 30 2005, 03:35 AM
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#34
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
6) Luxembourg! The granddaddy of them all, they nuked the entire country and turned it into an uninhabitable radioactive dead zone.
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Mar 30 2005, 04:08 AM
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#35
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,011 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 7,087 |
All we know is that the Corporation will be struggling and has to take drastic step to survive.
And yet from that I can mount a staggering amount of speculation. Behold! The 10 megas in descending order of likeliness to be the "struggling" corp from SF. All IMO of course. 10 -Mitsuhama : Seems thriving these day. Major author mojo required to make them fit. 9 - SK : I could see them facing tough opposition. Losing a few feathers, taking some hits. Maybe even get knocked from the top slot. But really struggling? Needing drastic action to survive? They are the world leaders in finance, chemicals and heavy industries. Finance is the blood stream of a corporation while chemicals and heavy industries make every other industries possible. If any corporation is unsinkable, it's SK. I don't think it's them. 8 - Shiawase : That would be out of the blue. But they owe a lot of their position to their investments in Biotech. Most likely a volatile market subject to violent contraction like todays high tech markets. The rest of their position is due to their investments in Services (including transportation) and heavy industries (mostly energy, I think), tough. That's a lot more solid. Also, it's true that they have a divided board, but it's been that way forever. A cold war situation can be pretty stable for pretty long. Especially since we are not dealing with an unstable triad like old Fuchi, but with 6 people barely controlling 50%. Finally they are probably still leveraged from their acquisition of many Fuchi Assets but they had zero trouble in the past 5 years so by now I'm guessing they're pretty much in the clear with that bold investment. 7 - Aztechnology : Given that sometime they seem more involved in the business of destroying the world than in the business of business, they could have trouble any time. And the Yucatan mess just can't be good for the bottom line. But just based on their portfolio, they are the second corp less likely to face serious survival problems after SK. After all, they are the most diversified and are the best in consumer goods. If they can't make it through tough time, no one can. 6 - Yamatetsu : Made a lot of enemies in Japanacorp world with their leap to the PPG and the election of an ork CEO. They are also not the biggest corp. Their portfolio is fairly diversified but they are only the best at cybernetics. It is a matter of opinion but I would think the cybernetic market has gotten a lot like today's PC market in SR world. Not the best horse to bet on if you want big cash flow. So they could be made to be in trouble without big author mojo. 5 - Ares : I can see why you'd think about the bug threat. But they ain't struggling now and if there's a bug outbreak in the corporation I'm not sure I would use the world struggling to describe it... Any solution would have to be drastic though. With Cross gunning for him, with Nadja and Vogel as wild card, a catastrophic (for Ares) scenario is certainly possible. 4 - Wuxing : They're PPG and making enemies, including a certain great dragon. They are 3rd Smallest corp. At least they are big in Transport and Finance. I Value that a lot. 3 - Cross : Damien Knight hate Cross and their two biggest cash cow are IMO very volatile and competitive market (Computer engineering and Science). Plus they are 2nd smallest. They can go from heaven to hell pretty fast if the Seraphim can't keep up the miracles. 2- Renraku : Yeah, they're struggling. A few other bad development, like trouble in the very competitive computer market, and they could be in real trouble. They absorbed huge chunk of Fuchi just 5 years back. They must still be heavily leveraged from that IMO. You know what bankruptcy is? It's essentially just not being able to make the required payments on your debts. If creditors are unwilling to renegotiate the payment plan because they don't believe you will be able to redress the situation in the near future and no one else is willing to lend you money, you're gonna have to file for bankruptcy. I wonder how that works for an extraterritorial corp? Anyway, if Renraku's cash flow take more hits, they could be in that position. When you are on the verge of bankruptcy, drastic action is definitely needed. 1 - Novatech : Already struggling with the the dankwalther mess. Smallest corp. Biggest cash cow are volatile markets. Could need drastic action to survive. Best fit. 'nuff said. |
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Mar 30 2005, 04:41 AM
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#36
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
Hate to tell you dude, but those stereotypes are how most of the world view us out here in California. Swimming pools, movie stars, stupid hippie college students without a clue. Frankly, I don't blame them. It's not our fault. The world doesn't care about normal, hard-working individuals who want the best for the place they live. If only my job wasn't here... |
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Mar 30 2005, 05:27 AM
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#37
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,978 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 500 |
Because the sane don't do very much to fight against the idiots.
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Mar 30 2005, 06:21 AM
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#38
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
The sane have day jobs.
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Mar 30 2005, 07:27 AM
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#39
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
If it's Novatech, we're likely to get new header artwork across the tops of the pages in the SR4 Sourcebooks.
Of course, that wouldn't really be a bad thing. |
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Mar 30 2005, 12:00 PM
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#40
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Berlin. I have yet to read something more cliche'd than the Berlin chapter in the original Germany SB. Granted, they hence changed it from stupid may day anarchy round the clock to corp war zone, but it still blows. But I can see your point, CFS was argably close to GSB for a native.
Didn't they do that in 63 already ...?
Joint venture with Transys. But, you know, a joint venture between a Great and an A corp is kinda like a joint venture between the US and Panama ... sure, it's a partnership of equals on paper, but you can make a good guess at who's gonna call the shots in the end. Especially if Panama (to stay with the analogy) was threatened by the USSR invading (referring to Lofwyr wanting the WMI too, to keep his claws firmly entrenched in the continent's grid). It also says that Erika is looking for Transsys to play White Knight in an eventual takeover battle with SK. Now, what if the White Knight refuses to leave after the fight is over ...? |
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 Mar 30 2005, 12:14 PM
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#41
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 401 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Living with the straw sheep. Member No.: 2,850 |
In that case, I guess the damsel in distress will be getting married... |
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Mar 30 2005, 12:20 PM
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#42
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Well, if you were in their shoes, being contested between two Greats, you'd also go for the one who hasn't proven to be the menance Lofwyr can be yet ... who knows, maybe Celedyr will turn out a bit more dunkelzahn-y than iron-fisted Prussian Loffy. |
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Mar 30 2005, 01:28 PM
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#43
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Lofwyr and his toy S-K should get some seriuos kick in the ass. SHow the SR-community that even evil-godlike-manipulators are not invulnerable.
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Mar 30 2005, 01:34 PM
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#44
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Loffy isn't evil per se, as any major power (with the possible exception of Aztech and Winternight) isn't. In fact, Loffy wants the same Dunkie wanted - just that he has a more iron-fisted, serve-me-or-die attitude as opposed to Mr sugarcoating. But yeah, SK needs to be toned down a tad. There're threee megas in Japan (four if you count Yamatetsu), there're two in NA, why can't there be more than one in Europe? Well, Transsys-Erica might become just that. Europe's second AAA. |
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Mar 30 2005, 02:56 PM
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#45
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
I don't like the whole corp and lofwyr are presented. A megacrop run by a sinle entity sounds a little too unbelievable. Oh wait, he's a GD. That'll explain it. :P No, i jut don't like S-K, Lofwyr and their dominant position in whole europe and the middle east. It sucks imo.
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Mar 30 2005, 03:10 PM
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#46
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 7,185 |
It really depends on how drastic of a hit worldwide financial data takes in the upcoming crash. If widescale gutting of consumer financial information happens even relatively secure financial empires are going to crumble. However it doesn't seem like that's likely to happen in SR.
As for WMD while numerous AAAs likely have access to tactical nukes and a variety of biological and chemical weapons which companies do you think have the really heavy hardware. My bets for heavy hardware: Ares: Tons of light tactical weapons, orbital massdriver weapons and heavy nukes Aztechnology: Probably have mana boosted nukes, mana assisted VITAS or something suitably diabolical SK: They seem to have the lock on the European fusion marketplace which almost certainly indicates fusion weapons Renraku: Depending on how focused Keruba was in high end weapon systems I'd say a good chance of having some nukes Shiawase: They seems to dominate fusion in the US and Asia it would be natural for them, biological weapons out the wazzoo Yamatetsu: By virtue of thier Russian association I'd say at least some access to fusion weapons Fuchi almost certainly had substantial capacity no telling on who has it now. So that pretty much leaves MCT, Wuxing, CATco and Novatech. As MCT is ryumyo's corporate proxy to a large degree and Wuxing seems to be Lung's I'd say they probably have something up thier sleeves. |
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Mar 30 2005, 03:54 PM
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#47
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Well, it makes more sense than Proteus, the only AA corp without any revenue-making enterprise to finance their nazi-ish genetics and cybernetics experiemtns (have you played that 'Sandmann' module?). How the hell does a company without any revenue build some fifteen arcologies? Hunh? While SK is bown out of Tom Dowd's curious liking of Germany (remember the name of that dragon in secrets of power? "I'm Haesslich." "Yes, I can see that, but what's your name?") and more than a bit overrated, it is still far better made up than Proteus, in my opinion. But, yes, I'm with you in wanting another Euro AAA to put SK back into place. It's a company, not the Star Wars empire.
Couple of points: 1. What is a 'fusion weapon'? Do you refer to an H-bomb? 2. Winternight, not Aztlan, is experimenting with enchanting nukes. Aztlan also has burnt themselves pretty heavily last time they wanted to flush Yucatan with BC attacks. I doupt they'd use them like there's no tomorrow again. Their capacities most likely include Aztlan's state nukes stack, which should be about Isarel-sized (some 60) and every bit as omnious. 3. Canon says that all Megas have token stacks of nukes, but only SK and Ares have more than a few dozen. Fuchi had some token nukes, which most likely were divided up between Novatech, Renraku and MCT, like the whole company was. MCT might have a hand on Imperial Japan's nukes. Wuxing might have secured some of old China's nukes (they had around 800). CATco, I dunno ... the only referrence to Quebec going nuclear I can think of was in one Simpsons episode, but I guess the Seraphim have some WMD capability, if only gained by raiding others' stockpiles. |
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Mar 30 2005, 04:02 PM
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#48
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 7,185 |
Yeah I'm meaning Hydrogen Bombs or some variant thereof rather than fission based weaponry. I figure anyone who can manufacture fusion reactors can generate hydrogen bombs in thier sleep. Of course being profit motivated perhaps they would look more at neutron bombs for thier reduced infrastructure damaging capacity.
Of course it's really beyond reason that some sort of workable antimatter based bomb has been developed in the 65 year timeperiod. |
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Mar 30 2005, 04:11 PM
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#49
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Neutron bombs never made it into the mainstream of WMD ebcause they need an ordinary nuke set off to ignite. Makes precious little sense for a weapon desgined to leave infrastructure intact to be ignited by the most infrastructure-destroying weapon known to man, right?
And, well ... what would one need antimatter bombs for? H-bombs can be driven to 50 megatons and beyond. Who would be served by a bomb that would blow an entire continent away? Except for Winternight, which doesn't even have the ressources to dream of building such a weapon. |
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Mar 30 2005, 04:24 PM
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#50
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Even today and certainly in the 2060s-2070s it's a pretty pointless distinction between fission and fusion weapons. Nearly all nuclear warheads these days, at least in Western arsenals, are fusion boosted fission devices. By SR times they'd probably figure out ways to create fusion warheads without using any fission, but I'm a bit skeptical about whether such devices would be cost-effective in most weapon systems. |
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