 Cyber limbs in SR4, Please fix them |
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 Mar 30 2005, 08:48 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 165 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,002  |
With everyones suggestions about what they like to see in the new edition I guess now would be a good time to throw mine in. Could we see a vast improvement in how cyberlimbs work and how much essence they cost so that they could actually be considered as a practical choice for a character.
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Mar 30 2005, 08:50 PM
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#2
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,840 Joined: 24-July 02 From: Lubbock, TX Member No.: 3,024 |
Yes. Vast improvement.
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Mar 30 2005, 08:57 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 112 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Württemberg, AGS Member No.: 2,068 |
It's especially important to make them a lot cheaper. That, and somewhat more modular cyberlimb rules.
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Mar 30 2005, 09:01 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 7,185 |
Depending on your belief of how important having four limbs is to the whole body essence concept. Cyberlimbs should actually be pretty low essence implants with the vast majority of the essence cost involved in implantation should be tied to the neural processor that translating motor impulses to electronic signals and converting sensory data back into a form useable by the brain.
Now in examples where the cyberlimb is significantly stronger or faster than the base body there should be increased cost for anchoring the device to the body in a way that doesn't cause your arms to rip off in a Makota style scene ;) The primary penalty should be converted from essence to a social interaction penalty for obvious cyberlimbs as people look at you like a freak. Of course I'd love for SR to use something like the neural processor from base CP2020 as a mandatory building block for all cyberware as it represents a dedicated computer implanted into the body converting digital signals to neural impulses. Have with a base essence cost of .5 or 1 essence and reduce almost all cyberware accordingly :) |
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Mar 30 2005, 10:51 PM
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#5
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Knight Templar Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 212 Joined: 20-June 04 From: Ipswich, UK Just South of the Stinkfens Member No.: 6,424 |
Yes, please fix them.
Vuron, I like your idea of the neural processor a lot :D |
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Mar 30 2005, 10:46 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 875 Joined: 16-November 03 Member No.: 5,827 |
How could see people you as a freak if you are wearing cyberlimbs with an artificial skin or where cyberware is pretty common. Cyberlimbs != KS-Legs or something like that.
And yes, regarding technological background, clone-limbs and antro-drones, cyberlimbs in the range of 5000¥ to 15 000¥ would be pretty acceptable. SYL |
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Mar 30 2005, 10:52 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 7,185 |
Well SR universe is pretty new agey on a lot of things so people might be more along the lines of "My body is a temple" and view voluntary limb replacement as being a bit freaky (without even getting into freak territory like KS legs). While there does seem to be the development of realistic cyberarm replacements (using myomer rather than pistons and having realistic and responsive flesh) you might have to keep them less potent than the high strength more industrial cyberlimbs that runners might want. |
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Mar 30 2005, 10:55 PM
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#8
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,978 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 500 |
Even without new agey bits, I could see people being freaked out.
It's a pretty common belief in most cultures: This body isn't *yours*, it's on *loan* (from God, Allah, whatever). It's why suicide is frowned upon, for example. |
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Mar 30 2005, 11:10 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 875 Joined: 16-November 03 Member No.: 5,827 |
Cyberlimbs are how long in the game world? 40 years? Especially in a game world, where cybereyes and datajacks get implanted in bodyshops in the shopping mall? In a world, where the only option to get better than these damn awakened superhumans (like adepts and full magicians) is to get cybered-up? Where all major megacorps have cybernetics in their programm?
Hell, I bet, they will put billions of nuyen every year into spots and "my name is Joe and I am going to tell you the truth about ..."-commercials. Social penaltys regarding KS-legs, visible cyberskulls etc are ok, these things are really not the norm ... but normal looking cyberlimbs? Especially in a so extreme competitive world? In a world, which is officially described as "Cyberpunk-Magic". :D And yes, of course, there will be enoug people who don´t like cyberware at all or replacing ware etc. I just don´t think that it would be good for SR4, if these people are the majority of the "Joe 2060"-masses. SYL |
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Mar 30 2005, 11:07 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 7,185 |
Yeah I admit that I tend on having a good deal less cyber and a lot less magic in my games than standard games and definitely no Whole New You stores in the local mall. While many people seem to like the idea that cyberware implantation becomes the 6th world equivalent of piercing or cosmetic surgery I tend towards more rarity than that. Of course if you have a conceptual world where cyberlimbs should be relatively commonplace then don't have social penalties. My main point is that high essence penalties are not in keeping with the actual physical cost of losing a limb and having some sort of prosthesis and that most of the essence lost should be related to routing the neural processing. |
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Mar 30 2005, 11:16 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 875 Joined: 16-November 03 Member No.: 5,827 |
Well ... shouldn´t magic be few and strange? ;-)
Hm ... I don´t think that you can really base the essence loss on neural interactivity. For example: with an datajack (0,2 essence) you can already control such complex machines like drones, weapons vehicles or cyberterminals/decks. And a cyberlimb is normally not more complex like an ... air superiority fighter. And with other implants (like SPU math) you already have full neural interactivity and feedback ... directly into your brain. => Make cyberlimbs cheap ... both in nuyen and in essence loss. I mean, cybereyes are what? 0,2 essence and 5000¥? |
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Mar 30 2005, 11:31 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 669 Joined: 25-May 03 Member No.: 4,634 |
One thing that would make my day is if cyberlimb Strength and Quickness was one higher than the character's, not the racial average. Makes a certain kind of sense, as the limb would be fitted to the person getting it and would thus be constructed accordingly.
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Mar 30 2005, 11:33 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 7,185 |
Granted when datajacks have such power and low essence basing stuff on neural processor more advanced than say the listed router is pretty dumb. However I was specifically indicating that a neural processor of some sort (likely implanted around C1 and C2 with monofiliments implanted in the brain) should be an automatic precursor to just about any cyberware. This would include datajacks although I would likely have one external port located around C1 built into the neural processor unit. For things like skillwires and wired reflexes the surgeons would simple extend the monofiliments further into the body. Cyberlimbs would be like that but less so as you are really only needing a digital trunk back to the neural processor. Granted this is a pretty significant reimagining of how things work but the geeks might buy the concepts more :) |
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Mar 31 2005, 04:04 AM
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#14
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Under the current rules, cyberlimbs are nothing more than glorified suitcases that have a high essence cost. It's time for that to change.
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