 Ghost in the Shell 2, could it be an example of a hacker? |
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 Mar 30 2005, 11:32 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 326 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Vigo (Spanish Kingdom) Member No.: 1,446  |
Just seen the movie, and, as I was watching Batou move around I couldn't help but think one time and again about SR4s new Matrix. It seems like quite a good example of the new Matrix, don't you guys think?
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Mar 30 2005, 11:29 PM
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#2
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Probably, unfortunately.
Not that I don't love GitS, but the tech level is much higher than Shadowrun. ~J |
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Mar 31 2005, 02:06 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 216 Joined: 27-January 04 Member No.: 6,025 |
Second Kage.
While cool, GitS is not shadowrun and the ability to do some of the things that Batu and Katsuragi(pardon me if I misspelled that) is wildly unbalancing |
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Mar 31 2005, 03:01 AM
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#4
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Batou and Kusanagi.
~J |
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Mar 31 2005, 03:10 AM
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#5
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
You didn't misspell it so much as give her a new name. It's Kusanagi.
And, yes, while I would like to see SR take note of GitS and incorporate at least some concepts from it, the two are very incompatible. [edit] Curse you, Kage. This post has been edited by Arethusa: Mar 31 2005, 03:11 AM |
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Mar 31 2005, 06:07 AM
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#6
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 16-August 03 From: Northampton Member No.: 5,499 |
I agree with the taking the ideas but not so much on the fact that they are incompatible (with the exception of full body replacement). Bring cyber limbs into being worth it. Adjust the essence loss of head comms which as it stands will cost you a bucket load of essence just to have a cybered Pocket Sec! It would take a reworking of the areas involved but not so much as ot be not doable. [EDIT] Though to be fair i'm thinking more along SAC then Innocence which i havent seen yet. |
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Mar 31 2005, 06:29 AM
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#7
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Which, under current (mainly M&M) rules, is possible, but anyway. SAC? I recently tried to build a Tachikoma. Worked out reasonably well, though Robot Pilot 5 propably isn't AI, just an advanced SK. Scary what these things (maxed out robot pilots) get for pools! Then again, until Twist did whatever Twist did to awaken her, Morgan was only an extremely advanced SK, too, so ... |
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Mar 31 2005, 06:46 AM
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#8
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
The incompatibility I'm talking about exists more in terms of paradigm than necessarily in specific technologies (though the vast majority of technological concepts are incompatible with Shadowrun, at present, as well). This applies to SAC, though Innocence is a fair bit more extreme in many respects.
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Mar 31 2005, 07:04 AM
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#9
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 16-August 03 From: Northampton Member No.: 5,499 |
Stand Alone Complex
This is something thats been bugging me for AGES Tachikoma/ Fushikoma is there a difference? I always thought it was Fushikoma but i've seen Tachikoma around a couple of times. If anyone says one is made by Fushi, they get a virtual kick in the balls!
You mean Ghost Hacking right? |
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Mar 31 2005, 07:12 AM
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#10
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
No. I mean the concepts, paradigms, and themes that dominate Shirow's work (or at least GitS). Ghost hacking and its reflection on Shirow's/GitS's concepts of humanity and inhumanity, among other things, is one expression of this, but hardly the only one.
Wasn't it Fuchikoma? Also, as I recall, they were just called Fuchikoma in the manga and Tachikoma in SAC, but I could very well be wrong. |
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Mar 31 2005, 07:42 AM
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#11
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
In the manga it was Fuchikoma. Since there was in the latest disc of SAC the episode where the Tachikoma get returned to the lab, I assume that the Fuchikoma are the more docile, streamlined later model (though not that docile, obviously). I fully expect them to be introduced before the end of SAC. ~J |
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Mar 31 2005, 07:54 AM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: 24-March 05 Member No.: 7,227 |
Tachikoma is used in SAC.
The second season of SAC has a lot of interesting scenes that could be taken as visual cues for the new matrix. There are virtual meetings and some data hacking scenes that have helped me imagine how the current, SR3, matrix operates. I think people still need to "jack in" in order to access the net or to ghost hack another person's brain so this might not be as applicable to the new wireless matrix idea as you'd think. One exception, now that I think of it, is the Laughing Man from SAC, who seemed to be able to access the net and ghost hack without plugging into a physical location. He could insert data files into other people's brains so they couldn't remember seeing him. Or he could just take away their sight, as he did to Batou. Substitute a building's security for a person's cyberbrain and the Laughing Man might be a good example for the new SR hackers. Its a powerful character concept. |
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Mar 31 2005, 08:02 AM
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#13
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Strikes Again!/HA-HA-HA? What is it about guys with the name Laughing Man in cyberpunkish settings that they just have to break computer system rules everyone else is stuck with? |
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Mar 31 2005, 08:49 AM
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#14
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
That's not actually true. You see better results from direct hacking, but there are definitely instances of remote hacking and computer use (see the tank episode when it peeps Pazuo's Eagle Eye data, or for that matter Pazuo's Eagle Eye system in the first place). On the Tachikoma/Fuchikoma topic, the two are also of decidedly different design. The Fuchikoma is nontrivially smaller, lacks the bulge in the back, and is noticably a lot more cramped for the pilot. ~J |
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Mar 31 2005, 08:54 AM
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#15
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Yup. That's what I based them on.
Actually, "Laughing Man" is a crappy translation of the Japanese name. I'll have to ask my friend for the japanese name, though.
Even in close-to-space-age GitS, this character was a very special, extremely competent hacker ("pinnacle of DNI interface hacker" is how he referred to himself; he was also a lab product of sorts). No way this should be the common SR4 hacker!
IIRC, they're still called Tachikoma in the second season. I guess it has to do with all this universe restart thing the Japanese love to do to popular movie worlds every once in a while (Kaiju movies are especially notorious for this). GitS-SAC assumers GitS 1 (and, possibly 2) never happened; they also changed Motoko's hair back to Manga violet from jet black (and set the hair style right too). There's no coherent canon in GitS.
I always wrote that off under EW and transmission hacking (Section 9 has it's members connected to each other, which makes them vulnerable for such attacks). Also, they were unprepared for this, so I guess this is rather extraordinary. EDIT:
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Mar 31 2005, 08:52 AM
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#16
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
She also doesn't dress nearly as well as she did in the movie. So it goes.
~J |
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Mar 31 2005, 09:12 AM
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#17
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
they're tachikoma throughout SAC; GitS1 and 2 never occur, in the SAC timeline (though there are parallels, just as there are strong parallels between Innocence and Man-Machine Interface).
i really doubt that ghosthacking is going to be possible in SR4 to any extent greater than it is in SR3. that is, it's possible, but it takes hours, and the subject is going to know something's up. |
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Mar 31 2005, 09:13 AM
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#18
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Where is that stated, out of interest? I had personally just assumed that it followed the timeline of the original manga and that the SAC covered the time before the Puppet Master incident and the first movie.
~J |
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Mar 31 2005, 09:16 AM
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#19
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i read it in a site that i believe was official, several months ago. though i don't think there's anything in SAC or GitS1/2 that makes your idea impossible.
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Mar 31 2005, 09:24 AM
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#20
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 16-August 03 From: Northampton Member No.: 5,499 |
I agree with Mfb i've heard read it somewhere as well.
Although SAC, Gits (the manga), Gits 2 MMI, works With the first film and Innocence being a different timeline. |
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Mar 31 2005, 09:28 AM
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#21
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Incidentally, those are the ones where Shirow had a prominent role in making them ...
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Mar 31 2005, 09:30 AM
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#22
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
At least as far as we've gotten in the English translation of SAC, as mfb says there's nothing that requires a different timeline. It'll be interesting to see if they do in fact split it at some point (all that's necessary to go into GitS from where we are now in SAC is for Pazuo and Borma to resign, die, or be transferred and the Tachikoma to be replaced by the latest model, the Fuchikoma).
~J |
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Mar 31 2005, 09:23 AM
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#23
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
which ones? my favorite, of the three (manga, movies, anime) is SAC. the movies had too much pat philosophy, and i prefer my japanese cartoons without even the hint of silly big faces that the manga includes. though the manga is kickass.
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Mar 31 2005, 09:26 AM
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#24
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 16-August 03 From: Northampton Member No.: 5,499 |
Question. taking the assumption that an "E-Brain" is at least in part a snake eyes system, would it not be possible to hack the mass's ala Laughing Man? Since the mass's won't have Encryption you could do it via the Electronic warfare rules?
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Mar 31 2005, 09:39 AM
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#25
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
no. snake eyes only transmits sensory data. it might be possible to create illusions in a target's sensorium, but it wouldn't be possible to control them because there's no link to the target's motor functions.
and, actually, i'd assume that most people have at least encryption 3 on anything like that. though one might also assume that most people with wireless networks would take the basic step of using an encryption key... |
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