Pools and what will replace them, ... if anything Options

[Austere Emancipa...]

[mmu1]

[Demonseed Elite]

Also keep in mind that a lot of you are working on the assumption that there is no tactical dice pool at all (by that I mean dice pools that you carefully choose to apply on particular actions, like Combat Pool, Hacking Pool, etc.).

Rob's quote says: "The Dice Pools from SR3–Combat, Hacking, Control, Magic–no longer exist in SR4."

There's one very important pool he doesn't mention there.

[NightHaunter]

[Demonseed Elite]

And out of those four, what would say is the most important. Which is the one that every runner has?

[mmu1]

[Austere Emancipa...]

[Demonseed Elite]

I thought you were already having a fit? ;)

Anyway, I don't know. But what I'm saying is, what Rob said doesn't necessarily mean there will be no tactical use of pool dice. What I do doubt is that there will be a dozen different types of tactical pools like there are in SR3, all calculated with seperate mechanics.

[Austere Emancipa...]

[Ol' Scratch]

I find it best to just forget about the mechanics as they stand now, and look at each concept as its own concept. The existance of a single pool does not mean that single pool will function like anything we have right now, even if its purpose in the new mechanic is the same as it is now (such as a Karma Pool).

I'm all but certain they're rebuilding from the ground floor up, so there's no sense in assuming a single exact mechanic is going to work the way you think it is until you actually see it and its parent mechanic.

[Demonseed Elite]

I really don't know that it would work anything like SR3 Karma Pool. But the idea of a streamlined tactical pool of some sort meshes a lot more with the design philosophy of SR4. The tactical pool idea is great, and a facet of Shadowrun. But the way SR3 has handled those pools has been terrible.

[NightHaunter]

[Austere Emancipa...]

[hermit]

At least in my campaign, NPCs get Karma Pool on top of their threat rating ... makes them much more dangerous and gives the GM a handy instrument to easily modify enemies to fit the runners' threat level.

and I sure hope Greats retain their "messing with fate" ability, just to make them extra scary.

[Austere Emancipa...]

[hermit]

Too bad. It makes every fight a true challenge. It severely cuts down on munchkinism, all the more as our GM mercilessly plays these pools out. Well, that's actually not SUCH a good thing, as it lost two characters limbs and, out of six, only two did not have D+ damage, but hey, those were a Red Samurai turned Deus drones hit team ... and the remaining chars (and my backup char) got the fuckhead Johnson and contacted a "psychological consultant" to extract all the things he knew, until his head blew up. Ah well. It was fun nonetheless, though my poor elf now will have to live one armed for two weeks and five days.

[mfb]

huh. Eyeless's idea is interesting, but fairly complex. i mean, before, most characters had, at most, two pools that could come to bear on a given situation. this would make, what, up to 8, depending on how they worked it?

[Lucyfersam]

The option of karma pool to replace the rest of the pools had already come up, and I consider it to be a possible though difficult option (as mentioned in the first post). I really don't think SR3 did a bad job with the pools, most new players only have a combat pool and sometimes a magic pool as they don't usually go in for rigging or decking. These are really very easy to learn.

[Pthgar]

I would love to see a general pool (Karma or whatever) that all players have access to to keep the tactical aspect of SR. I guess basing it on experience (Karma) would be the fair way to go. If it was based on some stats, everyone would have similiar stats. They could however call it the Task Pool since you use it for all Tasks.

[Aristotle]

*nod* I agree, I liked the tactical aspect of pools but as a GM I also disliked tracking the pools of my NPCs as well as the Players to make sure everything was on the up and up. I think a single karma pool, used the way the old pools were, would do the trick personally. It would be easy enough to track and would still allow the characters some resources to use to their best advantage in combat. I really hope that is the way things go.

The tactical aspect pools brought to combat and the drain system for magic were definately selling points for the game system. Both made you think about how you used your resources in combat. Everyone having the same damage track and degrees of success are also important points for me.

I don't mind different rules, so long as the new rules portray the same world with the same feel. I want rules that are easier to interpret and play with, but I don't want to sacrifice all of the tactical grit that made SR so fun in the past.

[Pthgar]

[Austere Emancipa...]

Just curious: do you feel that, were Karma Pool for example for the same things that Combat Pool is used in SR3, KP should still be accumulated in a way similar to SR3, ie. characters start out at 1 and end up with Lots? Or would you want a different kind of development curve for it?

[mfb]

i don't think it should be a simple karma progression. the best way, probably, would be to simply average all your stats (it helps with everything, therefore its source should be as wide as possible). that would reward high-stat characters without unduly punishing low-stat characters, plus it's easy to track.

[Pthgar]

I think I would want an initialy higher number, say 5KP, and from there on out the old SR3 way of adding KP dice. Oh, I also would want there to be no difference in the KP earning rate between humans and metahumans. Find another way to make humans cool.

But I'll be happy with any thing that is fair and balanced.

This post has been edited by Pthgar: Apr 5 2005, 06:29 PM

[blakkie]