 Shadowrun 3rd Revised, our backs turned, looking down the path |
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 May 15 2006, 03:36 PM
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#201
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058  |
I'm sorry, what are you referring to? ;) (early... Monday... morning... need... sleep) |
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May 15 2006, 04:35 PM
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#202
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...until you meet KK41. Logic of 1 Uneducated Quality [Described as a severe learning disability she had all her life which was further accentuated by the Comet's passing] Of course I Hack, silly, that is what the Katana and Wakasashi are for." |
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May 15 2006, 04:37 PM
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#203
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Having a Logic of 1 will make it higher than 100% of SR3R characters, what with it not being a stat :P
~J |
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May 15 2006, 09:13 PM
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#204
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
..in SR3 terms - this would give her would have an INT of 2 (based on the average of her Intuition 4 + Logic 1 - round down). Still pretty low for anyone considering hacking or decking and then, there are the penalties for her Uneducated flaw. Mention "Matrix" to her, and she would more than likely think of a Russian Superhero from the comics. |
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May 15 2006, 10:06 PM
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#205
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 7-July 03 Member No.: 4,891 |
Kage: We'd be moving forward relative to default SR3. It's only backward relative to your system, which I suspect would require some GM adjudication at chargen.
Kyoto Kid: KK41 gets screwed by the SR3 method for determining Reaction, which includes Intelligence. The INT range for successful Shadowrunners mostly starts at 4, modulo a couple of Snoogish aberrations. That's why everyone can cheaply become computer-proficient. Me, I kinda wish there was a way to squeeze a second skill out of Computers, similar to the Sorcery/Conjuring divide, and making decking a tad bit more exclusive. |
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May 16 2006, 04:49 AM
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#206
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...I agree, translating KK4.1 to SR3 wouldn't work simply due to the attribute limits imposed in SR4. Instead, I would consider "dusting off" the original Kyoto Kid concept (who began in SR1) as reworked for SR3. The only drawback I see is the MA loss for wound effects which I thought was a silly rule to begin with. |
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May 19 2006, 11:55 PM
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#207
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 993 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 313 |
(from Gunner J)
Competency: This attribute describes how well the contact is in certain generalized fields that describe their "job." The GM should roll competency whenever the contact's ability to do something is in question. Use the field closest related to the task at hand; for example, roll Smuggler to see if the contact can transport something illegally, or Street Doc to see if a contact can heal a wound. Target numbers should be as for the skill being supplanted by competency. Contacts may have to perform tasks outside their chosen field; in these cases apply a TN modifier. For tasks closely related but not really within the contact's expertise (e.g., a Street Doc acquiring illegal drugs) add two to the TN. For tasks distantly related but with some similarities to a field (e.g., a Street Doc repairing cyberlimbs) add four to the TN. For a task completely out of the field's domain (e.g., a Street Doc firing an assault cannon) add eight to the TN. Compentancy: 1-3 500Ą per point 4-6 3,000Ą per point 7+ 10,000Ą per point Connection: 1-3 500Ą per point 4-6 1,000Ą per point 7+ 5,000Ą per point Loyalty: 1-3 500Ą per point 4-6 1,000Ą per point 7+ 5,000Ą per point Example: I want to buy a Fixer contact at character creation. I need this fixer to both connected, loyal, and skilled so I splurge and give her Compentancy: 5 (15,000Ą), Connection: 5 (5,000Ą), and Loyalty: 5 (5,000Ą). Meaning that I just spent 30,000 on a contact. ouch, suggestions |
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May 20 2006, 06:50 PM
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#208
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
To help keep track of things, I'm looking into getting a ticket tracker set up for the project. More information soon™.
~J |
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May 21 2006, 12:42 AM
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#209
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Does anyone have a suggestion for a good tracker that's… well, maybe a little bit less specific to software development than Bugzilla?
Instructions on submitting issues to the tracker coming Real Soon Now™. ~J |
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May 21 2006, 12:49 AM
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#210
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Do you have access to a MySQL webserver with PHP and Perl support? If so I've got something that might be useful.
It's something I inherited from an earlier grunt at my last job, and it's written almost entirely in undocumented perl, so it might not be what you're looking for. If you want something easy to modify then I'd avoid it like the plague. But it does have login capabilities, user rights, room for various projects, versions, priorities, due dates, and quite a bit more. |
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May 21 2006, 12:58 AM
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#211
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 208 Joined: 3-May 06 From: On the Run Member No.: 8,521 |
Any of the plethora of scripts here: http://www.hotscripts.com/Tools_and_Utilit...ties/index.html Just search for 'Project Management' or 'Ticket'. |
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May 21 2006, 06:09 AM
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#212
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Yes and yes. Offer's much appreciated, if you'd like you can send it on to kagetenshi@sr3r.net . I'll look into the various options again in the morning and see what comes up as the best option. The problem isn't really that what I have doesn't work, it's just that I don't really feel right about the fact that under the current system someone who tries to add a ticket about, say, staging an Ares Viper Slivergun is asked what operating system this occurred on. ~J |
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May 21 2006, 05:59 PM
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#213
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,278 Joined: 15-April 05 Member No.: 7,336 |
SR3, obviously. :D |
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Dec 7 2006, 10:57 PM
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#214
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Hey, I was just posting about Shadowrun in the MS shadowrun computer game forum and it occured to me... what is going on with SR3R? Kage had an awesome idea (even if it's only 'reorganized our house rules and equipment lists so they're concise and all in one place').
Kage - why has this gone quiet? What are you missing that can drive your project to undrempt of SUCCESS? I love what you're going for and I'd be happy to contribute some man hours if that would make a difference. |
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Dec 7 2006, 11:12 PM
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#215
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Two big reasons why the project went quiet. The first was I actually got off my ass and got back into academia proper instead of bouncing between dead-end jobs and part-time classes I wasn't really interested in. That's really been the big killer—this project is still on my mind, but gone are the days when I would do something like sit down and spend eight hours solid figuring out how to fix something. Tradeoffs.
The other part is, I picked a lot of the low-hanging fruit in the areas that I'm looking at so far. There's still a fair amount elsewhere, but I'm still trying to keep scope constrained so that some of these sections can actually get finished sometime before 2010. The problems I was working on when I last had a chance to spend solid large blocks of time on this were ones where no obvious fix presented itself. That said, I've got a new Sunday group (woo for three days of Shadowrun a week), so fixing holes has come back into my mind more lately. Still, you (the readers in general) can help. How? Well, a few ways. 1) Identify specific weaknesses in the system, particularly in those areas open for discussion. Post them, we can argue for a few weeks as to whether or not they're bugs or features, then propose solutions if necessary. If you have a proposed solution, all the better, but figuring out precisely what the problem is is the important part. 2) Try the new rules! Decking's really the main place where we've got a chunk of rules all together that are ready for live play. If there are any issues remaining, or worse yet new issues, report them as above. 3) I forgot what this one was. 4) If you're feeling really masochistic, try to sift out the agreed-upon changes from a thread and organize them into a distributable file (PDF, text, RTF, something universal—avoiding Word documents is the big thing). ~J |
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Dec 7 2006, 11:28 PM
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#216
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
I hate you so good. Haaaaate. ;) |
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Dec 10 2006, 11:43 PM
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#217
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Will there be happy fun armor degradation rules? I don't think that a firefight counts unless you discard your pockmarked, somewhat bloody vest afterwards.
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Dec 10 2006, 11:57 PM
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#218
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Possibly. I'd like to see some armor degradation, but it isn't way up high on my priority list. If I (or someone else, hint hint ;) ) had a system that was quick and easy to use I'd put it in in a flash, but I see the difficulty of making it fit in well in an extremely time- and attention-sensitive environment (combat) as outweighing the benefits that paying immediate attention to the problem might bring. We need some good Computer-Assisted GMing tools (CAG/CAGM). Problem is, most of the ones that don't make people change how they game involve tools not yet sufficiently available (voice recognition, natural language parsing, etc.). ~J |
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Dec 11 2006, 12:08 AM
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#219
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Just brainstorming here, but how about this? Every time the armor is hit by an attack which has a Power greater than its protective rating for that kind of attack it loses a point of protective value. For the purposes of degradation compare the Power of an elemental attack against the full impact protection of the armor. Furthermore, when the armor has been hit by attacks which cause physical damage a number of times equal to the protective value relevant to the type of attack (ballistic for bullets, impact for swords), reduce that protective value by one point. This penalty stacks with the above rule. How does that look? |
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Dec 11 2006, 01:30 AM
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#220
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
I think that makes armor next to useless - 4 or 5 shots, and your typical runner is left without any armor protection, then dies. Aside from that, it also doesn't really make sense in a game in which armor and hit locations are pretty abstract, and armor which doesn't cover the whole body still gives protection against just about all attacks. Finally, it just doesn't make real world sense - I think even modern rigid trauma plates don't lose protective value that quickly, except when hit in or very near the same exact spot twice... And the properties that make most flexible body armor work in the first place also mean it can take repeated hits and the impact will continue to be distributed. So, personally, I'd be against armor degradation for SR - armor is life, and any rules under which it gets degraded will make already deadly combat even more so. Losing 1 or 2 points of armor might not seem like a big deal, but in reality, it might often mean getting your ability to soak an attack halved. (TN 6 instead of 5, or 5 instead of 3...) I don't want to simply offer criticism without any constructive suggestions, but frankly... any system you decide to apply to it that's simple will have holes you can drive a bus through, and anything complex isn't really worth the trouble. (what's the point of having an armor degradation model that's more complex than the core injury model?) |
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Dec 11 2006, 01:51 AM
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#221
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
In this case, where it's not clear that something has to be done, criticism of proposals is constructive IMO. I mean, not that it isn't always if it's reasonable criticism, but the option of not changing things is always there whereas something that needs to be fixed needs some change.
~J |
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Dec 11 2006, 11:16 PM
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#222
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Well, okay, how about this?
Keep track of the number of times that the armor his hit by an attack which exceeds the relevant protective value and which causes Physical damage, with elemental damage Power being compared to full impact for the purpose of this tally. When the number of times the armor has been hit equals the relevant protective value the armor loses a point of that protective value. That way the armor won't degrade if it's being hit by a lot of weak attacks or stun attacks, but only for relatively powerful Physical attacks. Under these rules, a suit of Armor Clothing will quickly degrade upon being fired on by a shotgun because of the big honking holes punched through it. In my mind, the lower Ballistic values represent how you now have zero protection against rounds that hit the punched-through spot. If layered armor is involved degradation is applied first to the outermost layer of armor. The inner layers of armor are only affected if the [Power of Physical attack - Points of relevant armor on outermost layer of armor as articulated above] > [Relevant protective value of armor underneath] How's that? |
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Dec 12 2006, 07:23 AM
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#223
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
The problem with Armour Degredation rulings is that you have to keep track of armour on a per-piece basis. I would never follow an armour degredation rule for that purpose. The fun of shadowrun (and any rpg) is complex simplicity. Ie: no hit-locations requiring seperate monitors, no insta-death shots, etc.
Just my opinion. |
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Dec 12 2006, 02:54 PM
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#224
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
On the other hand, I feel like one of the advantages of SR3R will be modularity. For any given problem, there are at least two mechanics available (SR3 and SR3R solutions), possibly more. As an optional rule, the armor degradation rules WR is posting seem well worth including in the final SR3R product, even if many people choose not to use them.
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Dec 12 2006, 02:54 PM
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#225
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
- deleted duplicate post because the forum software hates me-
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