Shadowrun 3rd Revised, our backs turned, looking down the path Options

[nezumi]

Let me turn this around and ask how you'd do several activities with a credstick (since I'm under the impression that they serve most purposes of a wallet, much like the SR4 commlink):

Purchase a soda from a soda machine
Lend :nuyen: 5 to a friend
Present ID at a border crossing
Send a new acquaintance your business card


The only one I can imagine is at the border crossing and the soda machine, they have a device you plug the credstick into. Everything else, I have no concept of how it'd work.

[Chance359]

2nd ed BBB p.245

"A credstick... is a small plastic cylinder tapering to a point. The blunt end houses a computer. The chip in the credstick contains the owner's SIN, cred balance, financial records, and resume, as wells a s passcodes for the owner's locks. When used to conduct transactions or access the owner's records or property, the credstick transmits identificaion data from a simple ID number (standard) or a thumbprint (silver stick), or a retinal pattern (platinum sticks) to a back or lock."

"Credsticks record transactions not alread in the financial computer network, but they must be periodically connected to the network to vailidate such transactions."

So from the sound of it, credsticks work wirelessly. Now how you interface with something that sounds like an icepick is beyond me.

[Kagetenshi]

The same way Robocop used his dataspike.

(Not liable for injury resulting from following the instructions in this post)

~J

[Chance359]

I understand how you'd connect with terminals and what not. but would it be a wireless connection with other credsticks? and then how do you tell the stick what to do?

[Sir_Psycho]

[nezumi]

So should we assume that almost as popular as the credstick is the credstick reader, which is about the size of a pocket calculator? Because at $12k a pop, I'd imagine they're pretty unusual. Reading the books, while paper money exists, it too is pretty unusual (which is why runners are paid in certified credsticks, not paper cash, even though paper cash is harder to trace).

I never assumed the things worked wirelessly. Shadowrun has never been big on wireless until SR4. The pointy end goes into the credstick reader.

[nezumi]

I was talking with my wife about SR3R and SOTA65 and she said she would love to help, specifically by contributing art. She's a professional freelance web visual graphics design artist person fellow who draws pictures. I told her that guns are a popular thing, and even though they aren't her preferred style, she'd be happy to do her own research, sketch stuff up and, of course, get feedback. However, anything else people feel as being valid (racial profiles, vehicles, dragons, whatever) she'll go for. All she has to know is what needs to be done. Of course, she is limited in how much she can do, since it takes a few hours to do a complete picture.

She's put some sketches up here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11139177@N00/

(Yes, there are pictures of me too. I'm sure everyone will be surprised to see I'm not really a 6'11", 240lb troll named Brock.)

So people are aware, some of the pictures have b00b13s and may not be appropriate for work, unless your boss is a guy and can also appreciate a good b00b13 when he sees one.

So yes, if people have a suggestion on what she should draw, go ahead and give it. If people decide the drawing is not up to snuff, you can not include it or she can fix it given solid criticism.

[Kagetenshi]

[Kagetenshi]

Here's a question: do we want to fix the hole in the rules whereby someone with L stun and L Physical is more incapacitated than someone with two boxes of Physical or two boxes of Stun?

~J

[Herald of Verjig...]

I liked how Mechwarrior 2nd edition handled stun and physical.
There was one bar (per region, but I never liked that part in personal combat). Physical damage would replace stun damage (if present), but stun damage was always added at the end. This may require a longer health bar or something, but a L stun followed by a L physical would just be a L physical while a L physical followed by a L stun would have the effects of two boxes (still not a moderate, but one more L stun would put it there).

KO would be when stun passes deadly and critical with chance of imminent death would occur when the physical passes deadly.

I think there was even a part about stun damage becoming physical if a track was already filled with stun.

So, one health bar, one set of modifiers, and a somewhat clean way of handling the two damage types.

[Kagetenshi]

My thought was to base wound mods on the total number of boxes between the two tracks: one point on either would be +1, three points between the two +2, six points +3, ten points +4, fifteen points +5, and then incapacitation hits before the next level (though if the staying-conscious rules are used we could see +6 at 21 points and so on).

The suggestion above does have the problem of "overriding" drain—cast a spell, get Light stun, cut yourself with a knife for Light physical to override the Light stun, then cast Heal to get yourself back to full health. There's also the fact that I'm not sure it makes sense to have getting shot in the leg remove the effects of having gotten punched in the face a few times.

Anyone else have opinions on either proposal, or on the question of whether or not we need to do anything in the first place?

~J

[nezumi]

I'd say don't do anything in the first place. It sorta makes sense that the two work independently (if you've lost a finger AND you've just finished a 10 mile hike, you'd operate worse than if you only had one of those problems, but probably not much better than if you had lost two fingers. Plus, any suggestion that adds the two tracks together somehow will increase math, which I think is something to be avoided when possible (not that math isn't beautiful, but it takes time).

If you WERE to fix this, you might as well look at the fact that getting hit with a weapon when the body soaks it to no damage doesn't even appear to leave bruises, which obviously doesn't work. SR4 changed it so basically every attack does physical or stun damage, depending on how well you resist.

Some other silly issues: Do we fix the r/w question that keeps coming up?

[Kagetenshi]

Which one?

~J

[nezumi]

The question of why r/w skill is half of the base language skill. Why iconography has somehow overcome written English, even though for it to do that, iconography would become as complex as Kanji, and that this runs contrary to current trends. Related where's Streetspeak?

[Sphynx]

I agree with Nezumi about not changing the damage tracks/modifiers. Those are cornerstones of SR from way-back. I like them. :P

As for R/W, I think it should be ignored entirely unless you take an illiterate flaw. There's simply no need for the extra skill values, and they don't make sense.

[mfb]

re: health bars, you could just have a single 15-box bar. physical is filled in left-to-right, stun is filled in right-to-left. when the two meet, you are unconscious. you end up being able to take more of either type of damage seperately, but less of each type in sum. here's how i'd lay out the wound mods:

[Kagetenshi]

If I understand that bar correctly, though, you still have the problem of one point Physical, one point Stun putting you at the same wound modifier that you need three points of either Physical or Stun, independently, to reach.

~J

[mfb]

hm, point. how about this:

[Sphynx]

If anything, it should be left as-is, and only take the higher modifier, not stacked.

[mmu1]

If you wanted to change the current setup, but still keep it simple while not ignoring anything entirely, you could do one of the following: take the highest modifier you have, then add a flat +1 to it if you have damage in both stun and physical tracks.

Regardless, I'm strongly in favor of changing the current rules, even if it ends up being more complicated.

While we're on the subject of Stun and physical, though - I think some changes also need to be made to redefine what causes stun damage and what causes physical, bcause the current rules are absurd. (sledghammers and maces causing Stun, etc.)

That, and I think how people with regeneration (shifters, etc.) heal stun damage ought to be addressed as well. I've seen the interpretation that they only regenerate physical not stun repeatedly, and while I never plan on playing a shifter, that sort of thing never made any sense to me whatsoever. Trauma is trauma. You can always make a special case for healing drain differently because it's magic...

In fact, now that I think of it, having stun damage and drain from casting on the same track is a bad idea that might simplify thing and solve one problem (mages being able to get rid of Stun too quickly) and completely fucks up how stun damage is handled otherwise.

[Wounded Ronin]

[Wounded Ronin]

[Wounded Ronin]

[mmu1]

[nezumi]

On the stun issue:
-Can you 'pull punches' to cause stun with a weapon that would normally cause physical damage, like a staff or a sword?
-There are some non-empty fist weapons that I think should cause stun damage - tazers, saps, etc. These would be exceptions to the rule though, obviously
-Stun should still apply from appropriate damage while decking

Overall though, I agree with WR's assessment.

Related questions -
We need to fix the shock-glove rules, since it is the only weapon that causes double damage. Should we ignore the lesser, blunt damage code when the electrical damage is counted?

How will we address two-weapon fighting when unarmed? (When wearing two shock gloves, you get a bonus, even when neither glove is charged, but when wielding two fists, you don't.)