 Decking, the SR3R way |
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 Apr 25 2007, 03:39 AM
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#326
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Decker on the Threshold  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156  |
I think we can combine G and H/J:
G) AR allows for people to do simple things without physically disengaging from the real world (SR4) 1. The computer skill is much more common 2. (added) most of the more "common" uses for computers--anything not involving decking/cybercombat, programming, using esoteric hardware, working with cyberware, or complex search algorithms--use the Computer Knowledge skill, instead of the Computer skill. I'd also like to say that I don't like including SR4's AR, at least not in the sense that you should be allowed to perform decking operations in an AR overlay. Certainly something more basic should be available, such as: G-3) DNI-enabled computers, decks, pocket secs, Math SPUs, etc. all provide a "virtual dashboard" similar to datajack-driving that allow basic computing tasks to be run through DNI. Complex tasks like decking still requires total or near-total immersion. To clarify B-1: B-1) Made for legitimate deckers, illegal deckers may locate, log on to 'utility metaphor' resource. Modifies the value for certain TNs: increases Index by 2, Files by 3; decreases Slave and Null Ops by 1. |
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Apr 25 2007, 03:56 AM
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#327
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Oh, and Y. really isn't a "break scan up" thing; both already exist in the core rules already. One's just called Matrix Perception, and the other is the "Locate X" set of commands. So it's more like, "Clarify", or maybe "Alter."
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Apr 25 2007, 12:27 PM
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#328
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Changes made.
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Apr 26 2007, 12:07 AM
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#329
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
So what are we waiting for? Both nexumi and I have weighed in on the ideas; I know Kagetenshi hasn't posted in awhile, so nothing can really be resolved, but maybe we can at least filter out the rules that the two of us (and anyone else who comes by) like? I'm just trying to keep things going here; it seems like there's only two people posting, and neither of them is our esteemed king and despot.
Anyone else care to comment? |
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Apr 26 2007, 12:26 AM
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#330
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I like D—maybe make the time longer, maybe not, but it should be doable on-the-fly IMO simply because that makes it less punishing for newer players without making things much easier for veterans to run roughshod over systems or anything like that. I don't like the above-MPCP idea, but that may just be a gut reaction—I haven't had time to analyze.
I am strongly against this idea.
I never liked this idea, either—a lot of things simply don't need to be networked. If anyone's pushing for it, my suggestion would be to give a few example of good things it would make possible.
Makes sense.
If we genericize IC into frames/agents/something independent, this makes perfect sense. If we don't, it makes no sense whatsoever.
My opinion on this is essentially random each new day that I read it, so I'm going to have to think more.
Legal cyberdecks are just normal cyberdecks without a Masking chip, IIRC.
I disagree with the basic idea of deemphasizing hardware, and certainly don't like the IIRC unprecedented idea of basing a pool off of a skill rating.
That's not actually true—DF can get pretty high due to the hacking-pool-for-DF rules.
The quick system is in the liber non grata, so it isn't a problem. Anything I didn't comment on I'm undecided about and felt I had nothing meaningful to say regarding yet. ~J |
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Apr 26 2007, 01:35 AM
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#331
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
It would allow hacking of stuff like vehicles and credsticks without special rules, though some especially primitive or simple electronics shouldn't offer the same options as things like decks or other hosts.
Not only that, but there are already prices for legal cyberterminals in Matrix; the proposal is merely to include those terminal prices in our "main" book, as those should, IMO, be part of the "core" rules. We're also going to have to alter them a little if Evasion becomes legal at low levels (and permit-only at high levels).
Hm, how about: 3. (Int + Wil)/3 (modified by Encephalon, higher-rated Datajacks and Math SPU). The main problem I'm having is the way that external hardware plays a role in Hacking Pool, and it shouldn't. By that logic a driver's Control Pool should be modified by the vehicle he drives.
But that's not really the point. The point isn't that DF can't get higher or lower than that--obviously it can--but that once it goes over or under that point, decking is either impossible (every action you take drives up the tally by 2-4 or more points), or impossible to resist (at DF 17 it takes an average of ~100 dice to get a single success and raise the tally by 1; at DF 18 it takes an average of ~200 dice). So, when the problem states "Is 7-16 a wide enough range?" they're asking if we should find some way to increase the difference between paper-man and God-mode. Some of the other proposals help to mitigate this a little: at the high range, for instance, we have random background tally on a Red host starting up a number of IC by default, all of which the decker has to suppress, lowering the HP he can put into his DF. That reminds me, another thing to propose: the new H) The rule that Hacking Pool can be used to suppress IC is no longer optional. |
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Apr 26 2007, 01:51 AM
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#332
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Yes, but what use is it other than "it let the vehicle be hacked"? I need a reason for these things to be connected to the Matrix that isn't "so people can hack them".
Ah, I see. I have no opinion on this, because I do not consider there to be a "core book"—or rather, that our "core book" be the entirety of SR3R canon.
It certainly isn't as common, but the vehicle rules do give precedent for that—Structural Agility, for example, adds directly to both Reaction and Control Pool.
My intention is that all currently-existing optional rules be rendered either mandatory or forbidden. I don't have any problem with suppressing IC with hacking pool, so I agree. ~J |
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Apr 26 2007, 02:33 AM
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#333
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
They already *are* connected to the Matrix. Vehicles have Gridguide; credsticks have to perform transactions; everything has to link up to its corporate HQ to the firmware-installed spyware and movement trackers can report back on the user's habits, etc. I don't suppose I need to explain why a cell phone or a pocket secretary need to hook up to the Matrix, as the modern-day equivalents already do. In my view anything with a notable on-board computer or neural interface should have some sort of Matrix functionality, and should therefore be hackable. As for uses: hack the guy's pocket secretary to steal his home address, and his home terminal passwords that he so stupidly left on there; hack the cell phone carried by that guy who flipped you off and spoof a call to sign him up to be a Jehovah's Witness, etc. The possibilities are there for the creative; they just need the motive and the opportunity. :)
So, basically "approved" then. The issue was that legal "decks" should be part of "Core", so the motion is passed in a somewhat vacuous victory and we can free up N). Yay! :)
Ah, that would explain why I never noticed it. I took one look at CC's firearm customization rules, vomited a little, then resolved to never look at SR customization rules in-depth again. :) Hm, I'm a bit ambivalent to this one. I'd much rather all pools be strictly attribute-based, with cyber modification being the only possible way to otherwise alter them, but I see the precedents are somewhat different. |
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Apr 27 2007, 12:36 PM
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#334
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
According to things like Sprawl Survival Guide, basically everything is made to be networked. Your fridge, your toaster, your little clean-bot. Everything is networked to the house host. I don't remember if they work as slave nodes to the host or if they're individual hosts, however. I wouldn't mind if everything could just be slaved to a host, that might be simpler (otherwise it would seem a slave is a host of its own).
Yes, but we don't know how much the masking chip costs, so we don't know how much of a price difference that makes. An M-16 is just an AR-15 with an automatic upper receiver, but it costs about $15,000 more. Sounds like this one is approved, and we can hammer out the nitty gritty in probably one or two posts. H also got 3 votes out of 3 active posters, so I'm moving that to approved. |
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Apr 27 2007, 12:42 PM
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#335
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I'm pretty sure we do, but I don't have time to check Matrix right now. Later, if someone hasn't already by then.
~J |
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Apr 28 2007, 12:14 AM
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#336
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Yes it's in there. Like I said (a few) times before, custom cyberterminal construction rules--including prices for Masking et. al chipsets--are all written out--rather extensively in fact--in Matrix.
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Jun 27 2007, 01:57 PM
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#337
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ontari-airee-o Member No.: 1,115 |
ok ... I was talking with some people on a mud that I play about the gripes we have with decking .... and I wanted to throw this your way.
1. One of the problems that I have with Decking vr2 and after is that everything is bumped up to rely on programs and utilities instead of raw skill. 2. Hosts have inflated system numbers to compensate for programs. 3. You have to keep calculating your decks memory, based on what programs/utilities are loaded. So ... what I was thinking is that we divide the system ratings by 2, and get rid of requiring programs to deck, and instead put more of an emphasis on the deckers skill at manipulating the datastream. This being said, a decker can still write and use these programs BUT they run as utilities in the background, and would require either an encephalon or subprocessor package to run. For example. decker spoofs through the host and logs in. Decides to load up her search program rating 6. it runs as a process managed by the encephalon to find a file with X parameters. Then the decker decides to manually perform file operations that will cause a loop in the security cameras. Once the file is found, the decker's encephalon analyses the and before downloading discovers a databomb. The decker has a low level diffuse loaded, but decides to handle this one manually because this is an important file. While the decker diffuses the file, the encephalon switches to maintain the loop that the decker setup in the camera. If IC pops up the encephalon can run some attack utilities or the decker can switch to attacking and allow the encephalon to continue with the diffusion. etc etc this is just the start of the idea. I personally like this because it places more importance on skill, but really makes programs very handy to have. |
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Jul 1 2007, 07:46 AM
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#338
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
More on this later, but it bears repeating here: There are really four technical Active skills that a decker really ought to have to consider himself a real decker: Electronics, Electronics B/R, Computer, Computer B/R*. Unfortunately, just about everything that the decker really ever needs to do (deck, search, write programs, cybercombat) are all part of the single Computer skill. Maybe we can shift around what each skill covers, so that your competent decker would need high scores in all 4 to truly fill the role? For instance: -1) Rather than the (IMO silly) distinction between Computer and Electronics, how about Computer and Decking? --a)Computer would cover search operations, as well as anything involving using an attached resource to a computer system (eg. anything involving Index, File and Slave subsystems). --b)Decking would be the... less reputable stuff. Anything that involves subterfuge, or fooling the system would be covered (Access and Control, naturally, but also cybercombat and Null Operations, as both deal with directly subverting, rather than actually working with, the system.) -2) Computer B/R would be the new programming skill. Thus, rather than building computer hardware, the B/R skill would in other words be building and repairing computer programs. Maybe you can also use this to "repair" programs hit by Tar IC? -3) Electronics B/R would now basically be the catch-all for what's left. Building computer hardware, other electronics hardware, etc. would go here. Most of those aren't used enough to constitute their own skill, really, and most are simple enough to be cross-compatible. --a)Should Electronics Warfare go here, or under Computer or Decking? *shrug* *-Obviously this doesn't include things like etiquette/etc, as everyone needs skills |
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