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> Loading shotguns with rock salt, For the inner groin-blasting sadist
Wounded Ronin
post Apr 16 2005, 04:38 AM
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So, IRL, many farmers load shotguns with rock salt and use them to shoot kids on their property. Although I've never been shot with rock salt it's supposed to be extremely painful.

Anyway, what would be the damage code in SR if you wanted to load a shotgun with rock salt?

It would be pretty funny to blast someone repeatedly with rock salt in the context of SR. You could make called shots to his groin and everything.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Apr 16 2005, 05:25 AM
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My quick suggestions:
Base damage similar to a stun round, maybe penalized by range. Additional pain effect either providing a +1 TN penalty or treated as an Agony spell with force = half power and 3 successes (more if called shot for greater pain).
Edit: Oh yeah, armor. Ok, try that the power is reduced by both impact and ballistic, treating any armor as hardened. This final power is what to use if using the spell style pain effects. (Thanks, forgot that problem)
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fistandantilus4....
post Apr 16 2005, 05:27 AM
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sounds good, but it should do crap against armor.
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Kagetenshi
post Apr 16 2005, 05:32 AM
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Indeed. A quick googling reveals a story in which a would-be robber shot in the backside with this fails to have his clothing penetrated.

~J
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lorthazar
post Apr 16 2005, 05:33 AM
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8L physical and 8M Stun neither of which I would let stage up (the target still has to negate you successes before staging down)

As for the effect when the stun condition monitor is full the victim is not unconscious, they are instead writing in agony as the burning feeling of the salt is just too intense to even try to ignore. Body armor is doubled against rocksalt becuase of the crystals light weight.
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fistandantilus4....
post Apr 16 2005, 05:57 AM
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QUOTE (lorthazar)
... becuase of the crystals light weight.

bad range too. Even with a choke.

Imagine a sammie with a SGL, and auto choke, all the gadgets... shooting rock salt. sad....

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Tziluthi
post Apr 16 2005, 01:24 PM
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Yeah. Better to shoot him in the nuts with one of those bean bags. And then you can say "he took a bean bag in his beans" or something equally as poor. :)
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psykotisk_overle...
post Apr 16 2005, 01:57 PM
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When it comes to combat rocksalt just aint worth its salt :P


My knowledge of shotguns and rocksalt are limited, but what about double ballistic and double impact armor (all counts as hardened), and taser or light pistol ranges?
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Foreigner
post Apr 16 2005, 02:34 PM
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Tziluthi:

I agree with you.

Raygun might have more to say on the subject than I do, but the only times I've ever heard of rock salt (or rock salt and birdshot) being effective was when the victim was hit in an unprotected area (such as the face/neck) or in an area where their clothing was rather thin, such as the seat of the pants.

A beanbag round--or even rubber slugs or buckshot, provided that they're reduced-power loads--would be more effective.

Just my :nuyen: 0.02, as the saying goes. YMMV. :)

--Foreigner
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Papadoc
post Apr 16 2005, 02:56 PM
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FYI: It hurts like a son of a bitch! :spin: However, a good leather jacket will stop it a any but point blank range.
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Wounded Ronin
post Apr 16 2005, 07:25 PM
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QUOTE (Foreigner)
Tziluthi:

I agree with you.

Raygun might have more to say on the subject than I do, but the only times I've ever heard of rock salt (or rock salt and birdshot) being effective was when the victim was hit in an unprotected area (such as the face/neck) or in an area where their clothing was rather thin, such as the seat of the pants.

A beanbag round--or even rubber slugs or buckshot, provided that they're reduced-power loads--would be more effective.

Just my :nuyen: 0.02, as the saying goes. YMMV. :)

--Foreigner

Yes, but see, we already have shotgun gel rounds in SR. The idea is to inject beefy humor into the game by being able to pelt someone with rocksalt an excessive number of times until he breaks down and starts crying.
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Fresno Bob
post Apr 16 2005, 07:42 PM
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Well in that case just have someone hold him down, take his shirt off, then blast him in the chest a few times. I guess you're out of luck if he has a cybertorso, though.
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Enigma
post Apr 17 2005, 01:43 AM
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An idea which I've poached on occasion from the Millenium's End email group thing is the idea of loading a gun with formic acid in solid form. Similar to rock saly, but so much more evil.

In Australia we have green ants, which are vicious little b*stards that bite. Their bite is very painful because of their use of Formic Acid, which basically gives you an intensely painful burning sensation which swells up and burns, and that's from an ant bite. I generally give these things taser rounds for range but give it a +1 per box of Stun inflicted modifier, and generally start it at 9M stun from a 10S shotgun (ie -1 power -1 level). Very good for non-lethal drones packing a shotgun to use, because they hit you with this and all but the most hardened runners bolt. I also dread to think of the effect of getting some of this stuff in the eye.
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bclements
post Apr 17 2005, 03:11 AM
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QUOTE (Papadoc)
FYI: It hurts like a son of a bitch! :spin:

Hell yeah! As a plus (or minus, depending on what end of the gun you're on) a sweater and undershirt doesn't block it at less than about 20 feet.
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Fortune
post Apr 17 2005, 04:13 AM
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QUOTE (psykotisk_overlegen)
When it comes to combat rocksalt just aint worth its salt

Unless you are using it against Spirits.
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Raygun
post Apr 17 2005, 09:36 AM
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As luck would have it, I have recently found myself in posession of a shotshell reloader. My kitchen happens to be well-stocked with rock salt, though previously for the pupose of making gelato... I think I may have to experiment a bit one of these days. Maybe tomorrow, if I can get around to it.
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Edward
post Apr 17 2005, 03:52 PM
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I feel a sudden need to advise against testing this on people, also any animal that could be considered “cute” and there are very few that can not (if nobody else will like it I probably will).

Edward
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Arethusa
post Apr 17 2005, 03:58 PM
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QUOTE (Raygun)
As luck would have it, I have recently found myself in posession of a shotshell reloader. My kitchen happens to be well-stocked with rock salt, though previously for the pupose of making gelato... I think I may have to experiment a bit one of these days. Maybe tomorrow, if I can get around to it.

Out of curiosity, isn't there potential for barrel corrosion if you're blasting salt through it? Assuming you don't clean the thing all that regularly, anyway.
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Papadoc
post Apr 17 2005, 04:29 PM
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QUOTE (Arethusa)
QUOTE (Raygun @ Apr 17 2005, 04:36 AM)
As luck would have it, I have recently found myself in posession of a shotshell reloader. My kitchen happens to be well-stocked with rock salt, though previously for the pupose of making gelato... I think I may have to experiment a bit one of these days. Maybe tomorrow, if I can get around to it.

Out of curiosity, isn't there potential for barrel corrosion if you're blasting salt through it? Assuming you don't clean the thing all that regularly, anyway.

Rock Salt is no more corrosive to a shotgun barrel than the poweder/primer used. And with modern powders/primers they generaly are not corrosive. As for cleaning, that depends, some people are very anal about it, others might clean a shotgun (assuming a "working/farm/truck" gun) maybe once or twice a year, if that.
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Raygun
post Apr 17 2005, 07:26 PM
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QUOTE (Edward)
I feel a sudden need to advise against testing this on people, also any animal that could be considered “cute” and there are very few that can not (if nobody else will like it I probably will).

I was thinking more along the lines of mannequins with old clothing, sheet rock, and other building materials. I wouldn't even subject a gopher to that kind of testing (though it is that time of year, so the .22 may come along...)

Anyway, I've heard of the rock salt load like everyone else, but up to now I have not had the opportunity to actually try it out and see what it is capable of. Not that this will be very high on the scientific testing scale... I just want to see what I can do with it.

QUOTE (Arethusa)
Out of curiosity, isn't there potential for barrel corrosion if you're blasting salt through it? Assuming you don't clean the thing all that regularly, anyway.

I would assume so, though I do clean pretty regularly. I guess we might be finding out here shortly.

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blakkie
post Apr 17 2005, 07:35 PM
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QUOTE (Arethusa @ Apr 17 2005, 09:58 AM)
QUOTE (Raygun @ Apr 17 2005, 04:36 AM)
As luck would have it, I have recently found myself in posession of a shotshell reloader. My kitchen happens to be well-stocked with rock salt, though previously for the pupose of making gelato... I think I may have to experiment a bit one of these days. Maybe tomorrow, if I can get around to it.

Out of curiosity, isn't there potential for barrel corrosion if you're blasting salt through it? Assuming you don't clean the thing all that regularly, anyway.

Salt by itself is not corrosive. Salt only increases the conductivity of water, which speeds the chemical reaction of corrosion. Corrosion is basically the piece of metal becoming a battery, and it needs the electrical current through the water to work.

So in a very dry, arid conditions you'd see no difference. But in humid conditions, especially with fluctuating temperatures where condensation is likely to occur, having salt residue on the metal would be bad.

EDIT: You can also have oxygen only corrosion, but that is much slower and salt doesn't help it progress. The only thing perhaps is the salt crystals scratching off protective coatings when the weapon is fired.
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Edward
post Apr 18 2005, 02:26 AM
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I can’t see salt scratching anything of that small iron pelts wouldn’t. I would say clean the gun after use as salt powder can be hydroscopic (absorb water out of the air) so it will increase corrosion in all but the most arid conditions.

Edward
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Arethusa
post Apr 18 2005, 03:34 AM
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I realize salt's fairly inert in a vacuum (like anhydrous HCl is sort of inert in the same); in real life conditions, however, especially if you aren't storing your guns outside in the middle of Baja California, I can imagine corrosion issues (though, as Edward pointed out, salt sure as hell won't be doing physical damage steel or lead balls won't).
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Raygun
post Apr 18 2005, 11:34 PM
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Well, I haven't gotten around to do any shooting yet as the weather has been sucking for the last couple of days, but I did make up the loads. I haven't weighed out the salt yet, but it is, as you would expect, extremely light compared to the loads the powder charges are designed for, so even after backing the powder off a little bit, I'm thinking the salt pieces might just disintegrate unless I reduce the powder charge significantly.

Anyway, I made up five shells so far. The salt is in a WAA12R wad over 34 grains of Alliant Blue Dot in a 2 3/4" Winchester AA plastic case, with Remington 209P primers. I'll probably make up some lighter loads tonight.
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Papadoc
post Apr 19 2005, 01:58 AM
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Raygun, you might try making up a batch using a felt wad rather than a cup. Less tissue damage at close range. :talker:
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