Street Level Options

[Raskolnikov]

So they are trying to make SR4 more street level, a laudable goal in my opinion. I and where I play (www.shadowland.org) are large fans of the street. We have characters who are exactly the opposite of street-level running around, true, but with locations like The Hollow Point, Sick Haxx, and such, street mercs (because really, these guys only wish they were sams) are classic fixture of the shadowland character base.

The question however, is will the story support this new street-level push? Most of the emphasis in SR3, even the many of the recent releases, was on big events. Dragons taking over things, runs that pit runners against Tir Ghosts and such, and let's not forget Comets. Will we actually see sourcebooks that focus on Seattle events? Will we see fiction that doesn't have the characters meeting Damien Knight every other day? Because, frankly, the runner on the street doesn't care who killed Dunklezahn, and that story arc was actually interesting. There have been many arcs with huge events that were not and thus devoid of merit for the street game.

Bad anime stereotypes, cartoonish art and writing, and high-powered excited-eight-year-old action-loving runs are all current stumbling stones to this push back to the street.

I hope they actually to grit up SR, but I'm wary. We may end up with cartoon characters who just have less toys than before. Comments?

[Vuron]

Well part of the reason I think there was a gradual power creep towards demigods in the game was that the authors on the novels tended to want to protray high end characters. This reflects a classic case of the Mary Sue phenomenom where in order to make thier mark on the game wild outlandish plots and characters became the norm in the fiction.

To a lesser extent I feel like this was gradually reflected in the game as more and more people wanted characters that could at least pretend to hold thier own against the heavy hitters of the setting. Combine that with the uber NPCs dominating the metaplot instead of being more shadowy and behind the scenes and there seemed to be a big change from shadowrunners being the faceless scum that tried to thrive despite the cards stacked against them to a setting in which shadowrunners routinely beat the heavy hitters (whether IE, megacorps or even GDs) and yeah it got a little cartoony.

I think that if people want to play that sort of game more power to them but I firmly feel it's better to make the street be the base level of power and then offer optional sourcebooks about the gear and magic available to the high end later on.

[Ellery]

I'm not sure that street level sells as well as grand events.

Everyone has to know about Dunk dying, but if you aren't interested in breaking into an MCT compound in Seattle, you really don't need to buy a book on that.

So I don't think they have all that much leeway to really emphasize street level when it comes to major plot directions. If they're not of grand enough scope, they'll be irrelevant to most people and therefore will fail.

If they really want to make things more street level, then, they'll do it in other ways. For example, you won't have Hestaby, Ehran, and Fastjack talking about a Captain Chaos post; you'll have Ted Crimson, Oleander, and Walks-with-Marmots, all of whom are street level and who are talking about what these big changes mean to them.

They can also structure the rules so that starting characters are statistically relatively weak compared to the big names; cap starting attributes at 6, but let the truly motivated and karma-rich go up to 11. (I think there's some indication that they're doing the opposite, and bringing starting character attributes closer to the maximum possible in the universe.) Likewise with skills, with gear, with magic.

Nothing quite highlights your position on the street as well as beating up some punk gangers--and then seeing a pair of Red Samurai (or whoever) coming towards you to investigate the disturbance, and you knowing that, statistically, you're badly outclassed.

With these two things--in-character street-level chatter, where you know the people (not just a random throwaway name) and know they're not all that hot, and statistical medocrity--I think you can have your street level cake and eat your dragon invasions, political assassinations, and megacorporate restructurings too.

[Ellery]

[Vuron]

Well I'm okay with there being threats in the game that simply don't need stats (IEs, GDs and Deus) because even if they could routinely wipe the floor with any group of PCs out there they aren't omnipotent or omnipresent.

In fact I liked it a bit better when it was assumed that they really didn't act in a forceful manner because they were either individually or collectively cancelled out by the others. It left it where the balance of power was only really threatened when one of the big guys was willing to sacrifice themselves (Dunklezahn) or that they were enough of a rogue element that they occasionally broke the rules and interfered with the course of events (Harlequin).

Yes Lofwyr other GDs and the IEs should have a variety of irons in fire at all times but fundamentally I figure they are mainly looking at the big picture and are more concerned with having the power to guide humanity through the horror period a century or two from now.

What I didn't like so much was when shadowrunners became the next step down from the plot elements. When shadowrunners continually meet with GDs instead of the fixer who was hired by a Johnson who works for someone who met Lofwyr then a bunch of the mystery behind the setting disappeared. The same thing happened in regards to corporations in which we went from a setting in which knowledge about Aztechnology was jack squat (Corp Shadowfiles) to a setting where the core politics of the megacorporate boardroom where made plain to all.

Honestly I think people liked it better when the high end stuff was very shadowy hints (often behind false aliases and agents) rather than spelled out in game terms.

[Raskolnikov]

I would agree with Vuron, and I think Ellery would as well. The point is that the emphasis should be on how events, big or small, effect the runners.

I'm not saying that big events should not be used. Whether I liked how it was done, or not (I don't), Ghostwalker taking over Denver majorly impacted runners. The controlling factors of a major smuggler's hub changed overnight. The powerstructure that had quietly allowed a major datahaven to exist in close proximity was suddenly undone. Laws, customs, and policies relating directly to the execution of shadow business were drastically changed.

The current writing does not emphasis this however, it relates in a cute story how "golly gee" cool Ghostwalker is for "totally messing up that place, wiz."

In the opinion of one player, the tone needs to change to put running back in the cyberpunk genre. It was never perfect, nor would it be under the best circumstances or course, but definite steps could be taken.

They might be, I would like to see that. SR4 has the potential to be pretty nice even if they don't do everything the way I would like to see it in a perfect world.

[Mish]

I agree, that some of the large plot lines and events need to stay. Where they need to make the emphasis is on how those things effect SR's on the streets. Like how all these big maneuvers etc...trickle down to the runners in various forms.

Maybe being vague on the large events, tossing just a few scandilous tidbits, and then focusing all the attention and detail on how the "little guys" are effected. Like what does my little corporate sabotage have to do with Ghostwalker taking over a frickin city!?!?

Muhahahahahahaha

[Ellery]

[FrostyNSO]

I'm just tired of every heavy hitter or powerful corporation having a Great Dragon behind it. Jesus. One is cool, adds some flavor, two is alright still, no problems there. But when every little thing that goes on in the world has a dragon or shadowy elf involved it just gets old.

[Ellery]

Amen.

[Rev]

One way to talk big and play little is to make events that are somewhat more diffuse.

Bug city is a very good example. It is a massive happening played out in a thousands of little ways on the streets of chicago. People could get caught in there, smuggle themseleves in and out, etc. You didn't have to be the team delivering the a-bomb to play bug city. You didn't even have to go in voluntarily at all.

Renraku shutdown seemed to be not quite as good (in this way, though not all plotlines need to be like this). The arcology was just too ridiculously lethal and too isolated.

Tir Na Nog was kind of the same way. The book was extreemly well written and fun to read, but the opposition was so good and sneaking in so hard that the sort of games I was playing just didn't fit.

[warrior_allanon]

thats one of the reasons i like how my GM is doing things, he's working us through all the runs, from 1st ed up, and believe me we are learning hard, and i think that the playtesters have done the same thing, they have brought the characters they use to playtest the games up from the beginning and they are so bada$$, that they can take on a dragon fairly easily, that just puts the game at that great a level, and i think everyone should do that, but hey thats just my opinion

[mintcar]

Well. I have been doing that too. The step is kind of large though from 2.nd to 3.d edition adventures. Anyway, seing as we hope for a lot of new players for this edition, they should make it a reset in terms of power levels.

[NightHaunter]

I've played and run shadowrun at just about all power levels and high powered is goodish but gets old quick. Whereas street level is just more fun. Digging for info then running like hell when you find out how deep the rabbit hole is!

I've also got people to build themselves as shadowrun stats then dumped them in the arcology shutdown from 1 day before hell. :vegm:
Suprisingly they enjoyed that one.
I do prefer street level as you get a better sense of achievement.

[Demonseed Elite]

NDA-bound, all I can say on this is that it is being heavily discussed. Many of the freelancers echo the same comments on this thread, it's mostly a matter of discussing the hows of doing it.

I'll sound like a broken record to some of the freelancers who read these threads, but I usually look back to the insect spirit plotline as a success in this area. It had a big event (Bug City), but before that, it had lots of street level ramping up. Queen Euphoria, which involved the insect conspiracy with a media icon and a fast food chain. Double Exposure, which tied the insect conspiracy to Renraku's renovations of Glow City. And Universal Brotherhood, which freaked everyone out about the friendly social program just down the street. By the time Bug City happened, runners were already familiar with the plotline and had been involved in small, street level ways. Even the novels for that plotline were good, like Burning Bright, which didn't have its main character do super-heroic things, but instead tried for small anti-heroic victories against the backdrop of the events that led to Bug City.

[Raskolnikov]

Just tell them to remember, if they have the option of making a CEO use stock manipulation to gain majority control or punch the other holders in the face after binding to a free spirit, go with the stock manipulation. I know it sounds crazy, but trust me.

Also less dragons.

[Cynic project]

[mfb]

there was no official military presence. that doesn't at all preclude curiously well-equipped mercenaries who happen to all be Aztlaners and happen to hang around in the Aztlan sector all the time. and the police forces in Seattle are pretty heavily armed; i don't see why things would be different in Denver.

[Bandwidthoracle]

I love the idea of Shadowrun going back to the streets. The only problem I could see is that in a street level campaign you pretty much cannot play a gargoyle shaman (One of my favorites) because of their lifestyle requirements.

[mfb]

why? you don't have to be rich to live in a 30-story flophouse.

[Garland]

No kidding. I kind of assumed most garg shamans lived in abandonned churches or condemned art-deco high-rises out in the Barrens.

[Bandwidthoracle]

MitS: PG 158:

[Vuron]

If you've got access to the first seattle sourcebook there are a few buildings in IIRC the redmond barrens that were largely abandoned post crash. Hell if you live in an city with a decent Z zone you can pretty much assume that you can find some sort of doss that is handled with street or squatter lifestyle.

[Bandwidthoracle]

[Vuron]