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> Highlander, Would this be over powered?
Kyuhan
post Apr 27 2005, 05:01 PM
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Some friends of mine were talking about making a highlander character (very adept-esque), and they wanted to handle the quickening so that everytime he killed another immortal he gained a permanent point of essence and magic. My view was that it could be over powered if there were too many other immortal characters encountered. Anybody have any thoughts on this?
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The Question
post Apr 27 2005, 05:05 PM
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Why Essence?

Other than that, I wouldnt see a problem with it as long as the whole campaign was about this guy, and the other immortals were extremely tough/rare.
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The Grifter
post Apr 27 2005, 05:07 PM
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Maybe after he killed another Immortal he could gain a certain amount of Good Karma instead?
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The Question
post Apr 27 2005, 05:22 PM
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I'd do it like the Highlander cartoon, where each Immortal had their own speciality. So you pop one, you gain their best skill, eventually building up the collection needed to take on the big bad Immortal.
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mmu1
post Apr 27 2005, 05:23 PM
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As long as you're still playing SR, rather than Highlander using modifed SR rules, that's a horrible idea.

Basically, you're giving one character a mechanic that allows him to become a lot more powerful than anyone else just for risking his life and winning a fight - which is something most characters do on a regular basis.

The only way I could think of that'd be reasonable is NOT starting them off as adept-like characters, with 6 points of magic they can spend on adept powers, but start them with just 1 (or even 0) points of magical powers and slowly let them gain power points as they defeat other immortals - but even then, it'd have to be a progression slower than 1 point / 1 defeated immortal, unless you plan on them almost never meeting any others like them.
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Ezra
post Apr 27 2005, 05:24 PM
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Well, if you're looking for ideas on how to run a highlander style character.... that fine young man Adam Jury included something on it in the Shadowrun Supplemental #13.

Download it here
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lord_cack
post Apr 27 2005, 05:35 PM
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You go, way to know your resources. Well this just proves that there is no one Better than...Ezra.....what was I....um...oh....
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DocMortand
post Apr 27 2005, 06:08 PM
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QUOTE (lord_cack)
You go, way to know your resources. Well this just proves that there is no one Better than...Ezra.....what was I....um...oh....

You know, you really need to take off those rose-colored glasses...
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Slacker
post Apr 27 2005, 06:16 PM
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Since different immortals had different amounts of power, I would say that the benefit would have to be variable. I mean there is no way that killing a fresh immortal should give somebody as much as a 500 year old immortal who has killed 50+.
I would say something like +1/20 of the killed immortals power points. So a new immortal would give +0.3 powerpoints (6/20) and somebody with say 10 powerpoints would give +0.5. That wouldn't be too much of an advantage.

Still, I really wouldn't allow it unless the whole campaign was designed around immortals. It is just too easy a method of advancement, compared to what the rest of the players would get.
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Moon-Hawk
post Apr 27 2005, 06:26 PM
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Maybe, if you want to keep it balanced with other characters, have killing immortals be this character's only means of increasing karma pool. They accumulate good karma as normal, and spend good karma normally, but they don't ever earn any karma pool. All karma earned goes into good karma. Then they get 1/20 of the killed immortal's karma pool added to their own. (or whatever ratio sounds like fun to you)
This might be somewhat more compatible with a non-immortal group.
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hyzmarca
post Apr 27 2005, 10:24 PM
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It also depends on how often you throw enemy immortals at them.
Duncan may have fought a new evil immie every week but, realistily, there at less than a thousand immortals in the whole world. Probably much less. And most of them live in Paris.

Another thing to remember is that an immortal can only be killed by decappitation. In Sr terms, that would be a called shot to the neck that results in deadly + damage after resistance. It wouldn't be easy to do. Anything less and the target would just regenerate eventually.

Also, some teammeates won't be too keen on covering the immmortal's post while he goes off to decapitate some random stranger.

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Mortax
post Apr 28 2005, 12:14 AM
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Built in flaw. :-) They also have a built in flaw of enemies.

Also, they don't regen stun damage, and an explosion CAN kill them. If your body is blown up, I'd say that's the same as decapitation, neh?

Also, you could make them able to die from magic. (just a sudgestion, I prolly wouldn't, but it is an idea.)

Personally, I'd be learry about imortals. regen is a powerfull ability to have. I also agree that making them strait out adepts makes it way overpowered.

If you allow it, you can balence it by 1st, making it an A race priority, 2nd, make immortals really rare, and bring them out at inconvinient times. Not always, that would be just mean. But once, the guy your hired to extract.... imortal who really likes the "there can be only one."

Hope some of this helps. As a big highlander fan, I'd love to see it. But it would be hard to make a pc without it being overpowered.

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Foreigner
post Apr 28 2005, 02:11 AM
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Don't forget how Methos, the oldest known living Immortal (5000-plus years), survived by creating the Watcher organization, then becoming a member and masquerading as a "normal" human for millenia.

IIRC, his identity on the show was "Adam Pierson"; ironically, the man who the current group of Watchers placed in charge of the Methos chronicles. Methos was also known as "Death", a member of a band of Immortals who called themselves "The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse". The other three members were Kronos, Caspian, and Silas.

There's also the fact that, even though they cannot be killed with conventional weaponry (although, IIRC, an Immortal WAS decapitated by a powerboat's propeller), it DOES take them a while to recover from what would be a fatal injury for a "normal" human.

For instance, Duncan McLeod received a gunshot wound to the heart in one episode. It took him about a minute show time to completely recover from it. IIRC, the injury was inflicted by another Immortal, who was attempting to find out whether the Quickening he sensed was Duncan's.

There's also the risk of a "Dark Quickening"--if a good Immortal absorbs the life force of another Immortal who is TRULY evil (think Emperor Palpatine), he/she risks losing his/her own identity, at least temporarily. It was as a result of a "Dark Quickening" that Duncan McLeod killed his student, Richie Ryan, in episode 106, "Archangel", the last episode of the fifth season.

Also: IIRC from the first feature film, Immortals become sterile after their first Quickening--that is, when they first awaken as Immortals.

--Foreigner

This post has been edited by Foreigner: Apr 28 2005, 02:53 AM
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Shadow
post Apr 28 2005, 03:13 AM
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QUOTE (Foreigner)
It was as a result of a "Dark Quickening" that Duncan McLeod killed his student, Richie Ryan, in episode 106, "Archangel", the last episode of the fifth season.

Actually he wasn't. He was fighting the shapeshifting demon who kept taking Richies form. Then the real Richie showed up and Duncan killed him by accident.

Though Duncan did kill a good immortal (and a friend of his) while under the Dark Quickening, I forget which one. Later on in the show another Immortal showed up to make him pay for killing his friend.

I ran a D&D game with one of the player being immortals, I gave them like %10 of the xp of the killed immortal. You could do the same thing with karma.

Kill a 100 immortal, gain 10 karma. Since you really wouldn't be fighting immortals that much it wouldn't be that much of a bonus.

Man an immortal with a monowire whip, that would decapitate pretty fast. Also IIRC Immortals could not grow back lost limbs.
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Edward
post Apr 28 2005, 03:41 AM
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The closest I would go is messing with the initiation rules.

An immortal may only initiate immediately on killing another immortal but only if he has the karma available. I would probably charge karma at the lower rates because it is so hard to find an opportunity.

If the character dose not have enough good karma (or chooses not to use it) then the quickening still happens but dose not produce any game mechanic effect.

Obviously killing any immortal is a major plot point and thus worth karma just as taking any NPC there is a reward for killing (several runs have in the awards section a bonus for killing specific individuals) this reward will be based on the immortals power level (indirectly on his age).

That covers the mechanic but I donít think they really belong in the world.

Edward
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Smiley
post Apr 28 2005, 04:47 AM
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Let's see... someone immune to firearms who can only die if, in game mechanics, he or she takes a deadly wound in hand-to-hand combat with a called shot on the head? That may be a BIT overpowered, yes.
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Ezra
post Apr 28 2005, 05:41 AM
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QUOTE (DocMortand)
QUOTE (lord_cack @ Apr 27 2005, 12:35 PM)
You go, way to know your resources. Well this just proves that there is no one Better than...Ezra.....what was I....um...oh....

You know, you really need to take off those rose-colored glasses...

Well, it was "Good" talking with you. 8)
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Foreigner
post Apr 28 2005, 12:23 PM
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Shadow:

I stand corrected--or I would except that I'm currently seated at my computer keyboard. ;)

I looked all of that up on epguides.com last night.

I don't recall, but I don't believe that I actually saw the episode in which MacLeod mistook the real Richie for the faux Richie and killed him--although I did see the following episode.

I think. :)

--Foreigner

This post has been edited by Foreigner: Apr 29 2005, 01:52 AM
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Wounded Ronin
post Apr 29 2005, 04:15 AM
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As per usual, when a player wants something unusal and powerful, you say NO. Because it will unbalance the game and if you try to take it away later he or she will whine like a third grade champion, being unable to deal with not having some stupid game-breaking edge.

Me, when I want something unusual for myself when I am a player, I usually try to make something *weaker* so that there's no possibility of it being a game breaker. For example, I made one character whose shtick was that he carried a 1911, a M3A1, and a M14. So the 1911 was like a Predator with only 7 rounds, the M3A1 had a maximum FA fire rate of 6 to represent its relative slowness, and the M14 was basically a MMG with only single and FA fire modes and no recoil comp. And that was okay, because classic weapons are hardcore cool, but it wasn't some masturbatory self aggrandizing I-want-special-rules-to-be-more-powerful shtick. It was, after all, inferior to the basic SR equipment.
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post Apr 29 2005, 04:42 AM
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You must be insane. Everyone wants to play uber-badass immortal PCs who contribute nothing meaningful to the game except the masturbatory self-aggrandizement that comes from having a PC who can't be killed in the manners which most PCs are killed.

I'm sure it comes as a shock to no one that I would laugh at the question and questioner, and find the discussion of such sickness disturbing.
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hyzmarca
post Apr 29 2005, 04:49 AM
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How about just rulingn that all immortals are otherwise mundane. Only the oldest and most powerful can channel their magical powers into anything but their innate immortality.

Such an immoral could initiate once ever 100 years or so and gain a single Adept metamagic. Some of th emore powerful ones could learn illusion and control manipulation spells, but none under 2000.

Alternatly, make them all psionists. Really, all of the pwoers exibited by immortals in the movies and TV shows were psionic. Illusions, telepathy, and mind control.

Immortals can also temperorially channel their slain foes, like in Highlander End game. They can also be permently possessed by their enemies, as in Dark and Light Quickenings.

In reality,their regeneration alone makes them overpowered. Sure, it takes them longer than 3 seconds to heal, but they are immortal. THey can sustain absurd ammounts of damage and walk away from it intact.

Also, enforce the Holy Ground rules strictly. Remember what Joe said about Pompei in that one episode.
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Critias
post Apr 29 2005, 05:22 AM
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I've got a zany idea where people play Shadowrun, instead.
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post Apr 29 2005, 06:08 AM
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What is that?
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Ezra
post Apr 29 2005, 06:24 AM
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Duh!?! It's that game where you could to modify any and all stupid movies, TV serials, cartoons and comics to fit an already existing system. Sheesh. How long have you been playing the game?!?!
;) :D
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Bull
post Apr 29 2005, 08:58 AM
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Always good to see my work bandied about :)

If anyone uses these, lemme know how it goes. I've run a few game sessions with an Immortal character, was fun, but I'm interested to see what others make of them :]

Bull
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