 Who's going to play SR4?, I think it's too goofy. |
  |
 May 2 2005, 11:36 PM
Post
#26
|
|
|
Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263  |
Indy Gencon, 3rd week of August.
|
 |
 
|
|
May 2 2005, 11:49 PM
Post
#27
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 897 Joined: 26-February 02 From: TIME OUT Member No.: 1,989 |
yes, but then again i'm not afraid of change.
also, i believe the paid professionals know what they are doing, and deserve the benefit of the doubt |
|
|
|
|
May 3 2005, 02:48 AM
Post
#28
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 491 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 90 |
Nope, not gonna play it myself. I'll aquire a book to see if the new wireless decking and a few other things are worth retro-converting to SR3
|
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 03:28 AM
Post
#29
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 571 Joined: 9-January 05 From: In the 9th circle of hell Member No.: 6,950 |
Um.... SURGE, anyone? Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of stuff out there that has been published that I really like. Then there are other things.... Just saying, no matter who you are, you can make mistakes. The more I here about SR4, the more I'm thinking the rules are not so great. Also, keep in mind that Gappiling Gerty was built by paid proffesionals. Then again, great works have also been by paid proffesionals, like empire state building. In the end, proffesionals are people who are good enough to get paid for it. Doesn't mean every one is a gem. Hope I'm wrong about SR4, but well see. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 4 2005, 04:00 AM
Post
#30
|
|
|
Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
For roughly the seven millionth time -- SURGE was one of those late FASA ideas, and although FanPro could have excised it from Year of the Comet, it wouldn't have been a smart time/money decision to make; releasing Year of the Comet for GenCon that year was a very important deadline for FanPro, and Year of the Comet was almost completely written at the time FASA closed.
SURGE has barely been used in published products since then. You can take that for what you will. I know that with everything I'm writing for SR4, I ask myself one key question: Does this material add something to the game for those playing characters in the 'default' criminal or quasi-criminal Shadowrun campaign? [That doesn't necessarily mean "does it give the runner something to do directly?", it also means "Does it give the GM a cool plot hook?" or "Does it plant the seed for a further plot?" or "Crap, that's an awesome place for my runner to hang out at -- mark it on the map!"] |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 04:36 AM
Post
#31
|
|||
|
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Okay then how about:
Right, because the FAQ answers are so well thought out and consistent with the game? Same employees. :D ;) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 4 2005, 04:52 AM
Post
#32
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
Yes, the fact that they are paid increases the probability of success. If the organization (or lack thereof) of the FAQ is any indication the entire franchise is in danger. ;) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 4 2005, 08:28 AM
Post
#33
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 494 Joined: 19-February 05 From: Amazonia Member No.: 7,102 |
sorry, I was using Chibus computer and forgot to sign him out.
|
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 08:38 AM
Post
#34
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 571 Joined: 9-January 05 From: In the 9th circle of hell Member No.: 6,950 |
just as a note, I was throwing all shadowrun in, not just the stuff that is being worked on now. I was more pointing out that the argument was not valid, not that you guys messed up with surge, I'm aware it was FASA, not you. :-) My second major is in philosophy, so I end up playing devils advocate a lot. The post was not intended to be taken as a shot at you guys. So far, the plot elements you've published I've really liked. (DRagons was awsome, as was Mr Johnsons, and I'm eagerly awaiting the books talking about amazonia and tibet.) I'm also interested in what the Crash is going to do. The rest of my point was simply that I don't like waht has been released rules wise thus far. As I've said more than one, if I'm wrong, good. If I'm right, I'll keep buying the books for the plot material and reverse enginering it to an earlier edition. The system that seems to be emerging is not an engine I like the sound of. The plot and flavor sounds good so far. It's the rules changes I may have problems with. (Sorry, next time I'm pointing out logic breaks, I'll make it a bit more obviouse.) Edit: Grrr, hate it when I use someone else's console and don't log in as me. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 4 2005, 08:54 AM
Post
#35
|
|
|
Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
Wow, that confused me. I replied to Chibu's post, citing stuff he'd said, and as I was writing, it turned into a post by Mortax. ;-)
Long story short: No need to apologize to me, although I don't think you should be using SURGE to tar everything that's happened in the Shadowrun plotline since FanPro took over, and I'm glad to see you don't. :-) |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 02:04 PM
Post
#36
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 124 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,812 |
I would have thought that the motivation for putting the SR4 FAQ up was (1) damp down some of the hysteria/questions that would naturally arise after the initial "SR4 - WTF??" reaction and (2) as a 'teaser' in order to hopefully secure some interest amongst the faithful in keeping existing SR fans loyal whilst still striving for more buyers.
If I am correct in the above, then I have been vastly underwhelmed by the SR4 FAQ. If they form any basis to be coming to an understanding of what SR4 will be then they can count one previously rapid, owns-every-book-published fan out. Nothing about the information contained there strikes me as being thought out or well developed. Sure, it's a tiny glimpse of the game that SR4 is supposed to be, but if they can't even write those FAQ well or in a way establishing interest and/or excitement in the new game, then what hope have we of a decent new edition? When I first heard the news about a new edition, my immediate thought was that there was no need, that the material already produced and established equalled the best game in existence anyway and I suspected a shameless (although financially understandable) money grab. Nothing I have seen thus far takes me away from this opinion. I will need to see some evidence of a well thought-out new edition with consistency and effort having been put in, as well as a superb new rule system (in my view, it doesn't have to be good, it has to be so good that it's better than the excellent one they say they need to replace) before I shell out what will undoubtedly be a rediculously large amount of money for a new sourcebook. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 02:28 PM
Post
#37
|
|
|
Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Now now. I agree that the SR4 FAQ was totally underwhelming--and indeed it damped my enthusiasm for SR4 as much as yours--but I don't think that SR4 is some kind of money grab. Keep in mind that SR3 is the longest Shadowrun's gone without a version change, and to be honest it's in need of one. Some of the technology, particularly in the wireless arena, is far behind *current* technology, and seriously needs updating. Further, noone can deny that
The problem is that the SR4 FAQ has served no purpose--to me, anyway--but to remind me that the same people that wrote the SR3 FAQ. That is, these are the same people who can't even go through a page of question-and-answers without contradicting themselves *and* the material that they're referencing; how can they possibly be trusted to make up an entirely new set of rules without making the same mistakes in internal consistency and balance? I could go on, but everyone here is well aware of my position in this, so I'll just stop now. Also, I do respect Fanpro's writers; some of the flavor text I've read in SoNA and the SOTA books are just beautiful, and indeed some of the mechanics there are really good as well. The problem is that the SR4 FAQ is just highlighting, to me, the fact that these same writers do let some pretty massive mistakes and inconsistencies through their playtesting and editing process, and the SR3 FAQ is just the most public example of such. Because of that I'm becoming more unsure by the day as to how good the new version of SR will be. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 04:17 PM
Post
#38
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 376 Joined: 14-July 03 Member No.: 4,928 |
SR4 FAQ is really nothing more than a tiny teaser.
People are getting their panties in a bunch over nothing, judging a 400-some-odd page book by something that doesn't even amount to a blurb on the back cover. Wait until it comes out, RTFM, and make an informed, intelligent decision. If you don't like it, stick to SR3. Nobody's going to come knocking and make you trade your SR3 books in and force you to play SR4. Who knows, once you actually *read* the new book, maybe you'll love SR4 even more than SR3. Until then, all this pointless bickering over the new rules is *pointless*, and shitting all over Adam and Wizkids because the .002% of the new system you've actually learned about isn't to your liking, is idiotic at best. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 04:30 PM
Post
#39
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 485 Joined: 25-October 04 Member No.: 6,789 |
Well you know how you can read a Teaser and know it is just wrong? When it takes everything you liked about a system and flushes it. That's how. What is idiotic is that a decent writer is trying to change a much beloved system into his own (high suspect) house rules. I know he owns the rights to publish, but does it really give him the right to basically muck up an entire game. Did a majority of the people who play wants these new rules? no we wanted a slight revision of the old ones thank you much.
|
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 04:56 PM
Post
#40
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 376 Joined: 14-July 03 Member No.: 4,928 |
Make your own house rules then, or write a SR3 Revised Edition and submit it to them for publication, either as a book or PDF. Owning the rights to the game gives them the right to do whatever they want with it, whether you like it, or not. Nothing SR4 does is going to invalidate SR3. There are lots who prefer SR2 over SR3, and play SR2. A new system doesn't mean the old one vanishes into thin air. Your instinct may be that you don't like the new system, but since you know absolutely nothing about it beyond tiny hints in an FAQ, passing judgement is like having a criminal trial with nothing but opening statements - i.e. forget evidence, witnesses, facts, testimony. We'll just convict based on opening arguements - why bother letting letting facts and evidence get in the way, right? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 4 2005, 05:16 PM
Post
#41
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 485 Joined: 25-October 04 Member No.: 6,789 |
Okay to the first: As a customer yes I do have recourse. It's called boycotting, giving bad reviews, horrible previews and generally letting them know how much i do not like their product. To the second. He's already given the evidence I need. years of contradicting SR3 FAQ's, a plethora of rulings that reverse previous rulings and canon, his own admission that combat pool, hacking pool, task pool, and magic pool are effectively gone and worst of all changing from TN driven system to a number of dice system. All that tells me that as far as the rules go he should have hired someone who knew something about the mechanics. However, I do like the story material |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 4 2005, 05:43 PM
Post
#42
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
I wouldn't characterize some forum members vocalizing their concerns over SR4 as "defecation", but then again DSF has never been known to be populated by under-reactors. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 4 2005, 07:27 PM
Post
#43
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 29-March 05 From: White Sands Missile Range, NM Member No.: 7,255 |
I'm definately going to stay in the "won't switch" category. I've been playing SR in it's current incarnation, through all three editions, for almost twenty years, and I've got way too much invested cash-wise in the source and rule books to change now. Besides, even though SR3 is complicated, eventually it all became second nature, and I honestly feel it's THE best role playing game (both mechanically and figuratively) available. Why change what ain't broke? Good luck to those of you that do go to fourth edition, but I'll stay put.
|
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 08:06 PM
Post
#44
|
|
|
Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
Look, if you saw a crappy teaser for a movie, do you have to sit through it before you decide it's not for you? Do you expose yourself to two hours of torture, and blow 8 bucks per seat, just to make *sure* that you won't like the movie?
Of course not. And that's why people are objecting so strenuously to the current SR4 FAQ. It's a crappy teaser, which so far hasn't shown us much to get excited about. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 08:11 PM
Post
#45
|
|||
|
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Well, I just got back from XXX2 and it was largely that exact scenario so yeah.... But I won't be doing that again! :D |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 4 2005, 08:34 PM
Post
#46
|
|||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046 |
Nah, but I might wait until the movie comes out an see it if the reviews say that it rocks. I'm sure lots of us will buy it in August and post our opinions here after seeing the real thing. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 4 2005, 10:29 PM
Post
#47
|
|
|
Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
What bugs me is it's so easy to get people excited about the edition change too. Take a look at the little blurb the Fanpro on the other side of the pond released (link in the SR4 forum). In that one small entry, that probably took less effort than a single "Sr4 FAQ" entry they managed to get more people excited about the edition change (and piss some people off too, granted) than all the "FAQs" combined.
Why can't our Fanpro be as smart as Germany's Fanpro? :) |
|
|
|
|
May 5 2005, 03:00 AM
Post
#48
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
Because they are the muscular cyborg German dudes |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 5 2005, 03:02 AM
Post
#49
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 1 Joined: 5-May 05 Member No.: 7,373 |
Like I, robot? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 5 2005, 03:52 PM
Post
#50
|
|
|
Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
I'm with Apathy. I can't say much without actual reviews. So I'll probably post my vote here in August, a few weeks after the first people in DS have gotten their paws on it, and a month before I decide to (or not to) buy my own copy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 8th February 2026 - 03:31 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.