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> Weapon skills, Query for those with experience IRL
Edward
post May 1 2005, 04:30 AM
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Weapon skills
Query for those with experience IRL

I was reading a thread involving the possibility of rifles with pistol concealabilitys and rifles with burst fire pretending to be assault rifles and started thinking.

So how different is it to fire a hunting rifle in single shot to an assault rifle in single shot

How different is it to fire a long rifle in automatic (if such a creature exists) to a assault rifle in automatic.

If these are similar would it be reasonable to group all rifles under 2 skills, rifles uses for SS and SA firing modes and automatic rifles used for BF and FA firing modes.

If you where to do this would it be worth also including similar alterations to heavy weapons pistols and SMGs

Edward
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Arethusa
post May 1 2005, 04:35 AM
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None of it makes sense. Skill divisions are insane and have been discussed at length. Pretty much everyone with knowledge on the subject has agreed on this and, in some form or another, also agreed that divisions along the lines of short arms (pistols and machine pistols), long arms (everything else), and heavy weapons (anything not man portable) makes a lot more sense.
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toturi
post May 1 2005, 04:52 AM
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Actually I'd rather they go back to the old SR2 of lumping everything into firearms. The basics of marksmanship remains the same whether you use pistols, rifles or even heavy arms, heck (dumb, not those new guided)rocket launchers also follow the same principles.
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Arethusa
post May 1 2005, 04:59 AM
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That is an arguable position, though I'll admit I disagree with it. However, I do also favor more division in other skills to balance, so, really, the a very debatable subject in terms of measure of degree and abstraction/immersion achieved.
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The Grifter
post May 1 2005, 01:46 PM
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Firing a hunting rifle in SS mode and firing an assault rifl in SS mode are no different. The exact same principles of marksmanship are used, and fundamentally the weapons are the same mehanically. Once you get into firing BF or FA, the only thing that changes is that you are now relying less on the sights, and having to compensate for recoil.
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Eyeless Blond
post May 1 2005, 02:44 PM
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QUOTE (Arethusa @ Apr 30 2005, 11:35 PM)
...divisions along the lines of short arms (pistols and machine pistols), long arms (everything else), and heavy weapons (anything not man portable) makes a lot more sense.

Well, some Heavy weapons skill should be Str-based, like holding LMGs and crap, and some sort of Int-based Gunnery skill for weapons that you control by remote/don't actually hold.
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mmu1
post May 1 2005, 03:05 PM
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QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
Well, some Heavy weapons skill should be Str-based, like holding LMGs and crap, and some sort of Int-based Gunnery skill for weapons that you control by remote/don't actually hold.

Not really - at least logically speaking. It's a simple issue of "are you strong enough to handle the weapon easily" - if you are, any extra strength is irrelevant.

It doesn't come into play when compensating for recoil either, because weapons like LMGs and MMGs fire the same round as assault rifles and battle rifles, but are a lot heavier, which means they actually have less felt recoil.

The only reason STR is used for heavy weapons is to not penalize the low-quickness trolls lugging around a machine gun.
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mmu1
post May 1 2005, 03:09 PM
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QUOTE (Arethusa)
None of it makes sense. Skill divisions are insane and have been discussed at length. Pretty much everyone with knowledge on the subject has agreed on this and, in some form or another, also agreed that divisions along the lines of short arms (pistols and machine pistols), long arms (everything else), and heavy weapons (anything not man portable) makes a lot more sense.

I like that division, except for the fact it doesn't account for the difficulty of full-auto fire realistically (it's easy to find people who are excellent marksmen with a rifle, with no skill whatsoever in handling an AR fired full-auto) but then, that's the price you pay for not having excessive complexity. (and part of the problem is that the SR system makes automatic fire much too easy and accurate anyway...)
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toturi
post May 1 2005, 03:17 PM
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QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
Well, some Heavy weapons skill should be Str-based, like holding LMGs and crap, and some sort of Int-based Gunnery skill for weapons that you control by remote/don't actually hold.

I was a GPMG gunner and firing that is no different from firing my SAW. And I am not a muscular person. Yes, you need a certain degree of Strength to use a Heavy Weapon but once you cross that threshold, it doesn't make a difference you are an Olympic weight lifter or a regular guy.
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Austere Emancipa...
post May 1 2005, 03:57 PM
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I completely agree with mmu1 and toturi on the Heavy Weapons & STR issue. Firing a particularly heavy weapon (i.e. one that weighs a lot) from the shoulder might require some amount of strength just to keep the weapon stable, but beyond strong beyond what's required for that won't make you any more accurate with machineguns. STR should certainly not have a damn thing to do with accuracy when firing a supported weapon -- I can handle a tripod-mounted HMG just fine, despite being barely STR 2. Firing a LMG or GPMG from the hip doesn't take much strength either (been there, done that, caught the hot brass in my boot).
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Wounded Ronin
post May 1 2005, 08:31 PM
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QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)
I can handle a tripod-mounted HMG just fine, despite being barely STR 2.

Oh my god, he's really a Shadowrun character!
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