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> Cellphones & Matrix, Some questions
Luca
post May 4 2005, 01:11 PM
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Some questions:

1) a player of mine asked to access Shadowland through a cellphone (no deck, no decker) and my answer was that he cannot access the matrix through trodes but simply through the normal Internet mode like one today can access the Internet through a mobile phone (in other words tortoise mode).
Therefore I told him that he needs 3d6 days like for a telecom (page 6 Shadowrun Companion), although I'm not sure if I have to tell the1d6 days for tortoise mode.

2) To access the Matrix through trodes one needs Cyberterminal, street terminal or cyberdeck, otherwise one has to do simply the tortoise mode or line commands from a telecom (whatever the difference).

3) WHen one accesses the matrix one log on a LTG in a specific RTG. So if I log on in Seattle I log on in a specific LTG inside the Seattle RTG. IS it possible to log on a Denver LTG if I'm in Seattle but I have the code number of that specific LTG??
Or I have to go my Seattle LTG, then to my local Seattle RTG, then go to the Denver RTG and then to the local Denver LTG?
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Raén
post May 4 2005, 02:08 PM
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I don't have all my books here, so some answers are from memory.

1) A telephone is clearly a line command system, so 3D6 days to me. (By the way, the page is 66 in Companion)

2) That's my understanding too. You need a cyberterminal or a deck to jack in with trodes. The trodes simply replaces the datajack.

3) You need to log on to Seattle, then go the RTG, then to Denver RTG. There may be some way to log on directly to the Seattle RTG, but not to the Denver RTG.
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GrinderTheTroll
post May 4 2005, 05:11 PM
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QUOTE (Luca)
3)  WHen one accesses the matrix one log on a LTG in a specific RTG. So if I log on in Seattle I log on in a specific LTG inside the Seattle RTG. IS it possible to log on a Denver LTG if I'm in Seattle but I have the code number of that specific LTG?? 
Or I have to go my Seattle LTG, then  to my local Seattle RTG, then go to the Denver RTG and then to the local Denver LTG?

You could physically login into a PLTG that had access in Seattle, and that PLTG connects directly to Denver RTG, but that means you'd probably be behind some corp walls or have some "direct" way of logging into the PLTG.

Otherwise, you'd need to follow the route Raén pointed out.
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Luca
post May 4 2005, 07:37 PM
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SO, if I know the code of the LTG in Denver and I'm in Seattle I have still to do the route Seattle LTG-SeattleRTG-Denver RTG-Denver LTG?
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hahnsoo
post May 4 2005, 10:30 PM
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Remember that trodes limits your initiative and thus limits your effectiveness on both decking and matrix searches. Using trodes reduces your initiative to a maximum of 2d6 and your matrix reaction by half. (Matrix, p18)
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Eyeless Blond
post May 4 2005, 10:31 PM
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Um, there *is* a Shadowland node in Seattle, you know. Denver's just where the main node for the Nexus hangs out; there's a Shadowland in most major cities around the world.
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Edward
post May 5 2005, 06:40 AM
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Also if your not planing to do anything illegal and have a lifestyle that supports an account (low +, medium + for mobile access) you can go threw all those grids using your legitimate user account your MSP (matrix service provider) gave you. When you get to the SAN for shadow land give it your access codes and your in, no decking needed.

Of cause if you try this when you’re planing on breaking the rules on a site (actually doing some decking) it would get you caught quick as look at you.

Edward
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Luca
post May 5 2005, 08:01 AM
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Eyeless Blond, the Shadowland question was another different thing and has nothing to do with the Denver question.
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The Other DSE
post May 5 2005, 01:35 PM
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QUOTE (Luca)
SO, if I know the code of the LTG in Denver  and I'm in Seattle I have still to do the route Seattle LTG-SeattleRTG-Denver RTG-Denver LTG?

It's important to remember that there is a physical connection that you're decking across. Where is the character jacking in? If it's at a normal jackpoint in Seattle then he starts at the Seattle LTG. From there he has to go through the physical systems which make up his connection. The Matrix is not just some great ether, there's a very specific set up of networks which define the connectivity. SR just abstracts it a lot to make it easier to play the game.

Real Life Example:

I used to attend the University of North Carolina at Asheville. The National Climatic Data Center is also in Asheville, about six miles down the road. Let's say I wanted to connect to their website (the physical server was indeed there in Asheville), as I recall the traceroute went something like this:

UNCA
->Local Concert-Net connection (North Carolina's education network)
->Main Concert-Net Hub in Raleigh, NC (about 250 miles east of Asheville)
->NSF Fiber Backbone (Don't know exactly, but probably a node in Raleigh)
->US Government Network Hub in Washington, DC
->NOAA's Network Hub in Washington, DC
->Finally NCDC back in Asheville, NC (about 400 miles from Asheville)

By the way, this is an oversimplification. In fact as I recall the actual traceroute went through something like 13 or more systems! In fact, I do remember that it bounced around in Washington about 6 times before finally going back out to NCDC.

In SR Terms:

Log on to UNCA(SAN let's say), log on to a PLTG (Concert Net), log on to an RTG (NSF Fiber Backbone), logon to a PRTG (US Gov't Hub), logon to a PLTG (NOAA), finally log on to the system we wanted...

And this was just to log into a system 10 miles down the road... :eek:

The Other DSE
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Necro Tech
post May 17 2005, 06:29 AM
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QUOTE (Luca)
Some questions:

1) a player of mine asked to access Shadowland through a cellphone (no deck, no decker) and my answer was that he cannot access the matrix through trodes but simply through the normal Internet mode like one today can access the Internet through a mobile phone (in other words tortoise mode).
Therefore I told him that he needs 3d6 days like for a telecom (page 6 Shadowrun Companion), although I'm not sure if I  have to tell the1d6 days for tortoise mode.


Dear god no. Shadowland is a pirate board. You must be a skilled decker just to get on and it involves hacking your way in every time.

That being said, if you have legal acess I'm sure they have built a cell phone with the ability to connect to the matrix. As it has crap I/O you would double all search times at least and only be able to search public grids. Not overly useful.
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hyzmarca
post May 17 2005, 08:36 AM
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QUOTE (Necro Tech)
QUOTE (Luca)
Some questions:

1) a player of mine asked to access Shadowland through a cellphone (no deck, no decker) and my answer was that he cannot access the matrix through trodes but simply through the normal Internet mode like one today can access the Internet through a mobile phone (in other words tortoise mode).
Therefore I told him that he needs 3d6 days like for a telecom (page 6 Shadowrun Companion), although I'm not sure if I  have to tell the1d6 days for tortoise mode.


Dear god no. Shadowland is a pirate board. You must be a skilled decker just to get on and it involves hacking your way in every time.

That being said, if you have legal acess I'm sure they have built a cell phone with the ability to connect to the matrix. As it has crap I/O you would double all search times at least and only be able to search public grids. Not overly useful.

People who waren't skilled deckers post on Shadowlands. Great Dragons sometimes post on Shadowlands. I'm pretty sure most of them use a simple text interface since simsense devices aren't designed for dragon brains. Of course, Dragons could hire someone to hack in for them. But it would be a pain in the hoop to have to call someone up everytime they wanted to scan the boards.
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Trax
post May 17 2005, 05:47 PM
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Do you seriously think that each and every person on the Shadowland BBS is some kind of 1337 D3kx0r? All you need to know is where to go, how to get there, and what login/passwords to use to access the place. That takes no hacking at all, a 6 year old can do it.
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mfb
post May 17 2005, 06:48 PM
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QUOTE (Necro Tech)
You must be a skilled decker just to get on and it involves hacking your way in every time.

this statement is infested with the Gnomes of Falsehood, as can be verified by checking Target: Matrix page 31.
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hobgoblin
post May 17 2005, 08:33 PM
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hmm i dont think i would allow a person to access shadowland with just a cellphone as anything more then a glorified search system and maybe a basic bulletin board. but if said cellphone where to be used as a the connection medium and a cyberterm or other where at hand allso then there would be no problem as long as the person knew how to get inside :P

basicly the cellphone of sr isnt the do-it-all that we take for granted. its just for talks and data connections. but if you have say a display/image link and similar you may be able to access sound and video feeds over it via a datajack ;)
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Luca
post May 17 2005, 09:22 PM
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I suspect thta one can access Shadowland in teh matrix with a cell like we are accessing now this form form our computers. The only thing is thatthe procedure is much longer than connecting through datajacks and trodes.
SR3Comp. page 66 says that Shadowlad can be accessed by the line commands of a telecom and teh search requires 3d6 days....I do not see the real difference in doing the samething with a mobile phone.....(if you want to keep watching your phone for 3d6 days....but my players in Denver are blocked inside an house to not be found!).
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mfb
post May 17 2005, 09:56 PM
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searching shadowland takes 3d6 days. popping into your favorite board and making a post takes ~5 minutes.
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Smiley
post May 17 2005, 10:01 PM
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Less than that if you have the handy dandy Dumpshock 'My Assistant' feature.
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hobgoblin
post May 17 2005, 10:04 PM
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heh, i must have missed that entry in srcomp (or forgotten about it, i cant recall opening it for allmost a year now).

yes, i dont see a search diff between a cellphone and a telecom.
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Necro Tech
post May 19 2005, 04:31 AM
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As stated on Matrix Pg 128, Shadowland is a level two contact. They don't allow just anyone in.

As stated (and contradicted) and pg 31 Target:matrix "So how do you find a Shadowland node and gain access? ........ Each Shadowland node uses different protocols, and they constantly change them to fit the times. Some of them employ trapdoor SANs, others use teleporting SANs and others use combos of the two. Heck, Shadowland sysops have invented half of those hidden access tricks, so don't be surprised to find it involves some completely new hack."

Sounds tough as it should be. Posting to the boards is easy. Reading posts is easy. Trading and selling info on Shadowland is not. It requires a rep (hence taking it as a contact) and the ability to barter info.

The same text then goes on to say that you don't even need to be a decker to get on. Schizo shadowrun rule strikes again.
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mfb
post May 19 2005, 07:54 AM
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not schizo at all. if you're in the know--if you've got SL as a contact--you don't need to hack your way in. you find out about upcoming changes through the grapevine, from other people in the know.

if you're not? then it's time to bust out the deck.
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Luca
post May 19 2005, 11:51 AM
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I still say that if you a mobile phone and you have Shadowland as a contact you can search through it in 3d6 days.
Another question:
my players are now blocked in Denver for a run they cannot put their noses out of the house or they will be just dead meat.
Non of them has, as a contact, the Nexus or the local Shadowland Denver (which seems to exist, according to Target:Matrix page 27) but one of the players (a mage, not a decker) wants to contact his shadowland (Seattle) contact through his mobile phone...
...I told him that he needs 3d6 days to so it.
The player asked me if he can reach the Shadowland(Denver) or the NExus through Shadowland (Seattle).
I think no.
If he is able to find a code in shadowland Seattle it is possible...otherwise no.
What do you think?
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noname_hero
post May 19 2005, 12:32 PM
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QUOTE (Luca)
[snip]
...but one of the players (a mage, not a decker) wants to contact his shadowland (Seattle) contact through his mobile phone...
...I told him that he needs 3d6 days to so it.
[snip]
What do you think?

I think that's crazy. If one of my players had the Seattle Shadowland as a lvl2 contact and had a pocket secretary on him, I'd just say: "Okay, you've logged on. Tell me what you want to do there."

I mean, this is 2060s!!! If a character has an access to the matrix (a pocket secretary, for example) and knows the required access codes and procedures (which he *does* know when he's got the Shadowlands lvl2 contact) then it is a matter of seconds to log in.

*Accomplishing* something might take some time, his buddies might be offline, the posts he makes might not get any replies, searching for some piece of information might take days... But *logging on* is so easy I wouldn't require any roll unless he's got Computer Illiterate or a similar flaw, and it wouldn't matter whether he's in Seattle or in the middle of Mexico City (we're already assuming he's somewhere where he's got a working matrix connection, even if it is through a cell phone, remember).

It is 2005 now and I can plug a cell phone into a notebook and use it to connect to whatever location on the internet I might desire. Seattle? Denver? London? The physical location is supposed to matter? Why should it take 3d6 DAYS in 2060?!?!?

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Shanshu Freeman
post May 19 2005, 04:51 PM
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QUOTE (noname_hero)
[QUOTE=Luca,May 19 2005, 11:51 AM] [snip]

The physical location is supposed to matter?

Do you think that's air you're breathing? /morpheus
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Luca
post May 19 2005, 05:19 PM
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1) noname here,
we are not dealing with a simple meeting in the matrix or a simple 1 second action of looking toa thread like this, we are dealing with the enormously time-consuming procedure of finding a really specific information in that big, dis-organized deposit which is Shadowland, going through millions of threads & topics through your mobile without jaking in it through trodes & jacks.
I think this needs time.

2) nobody answer to my question about accessing the Shadowland (Denver) through the Shadowland (Seattle) contact????
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Edward
post May 19 2005, 05:55 PM
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The fact that he wants to access shadow land Seattle from Denver is largely irrelevant, it will add about 20 seconds to the access time.

The cell phone could probably access the matrix in tortoise mode with an annoying interface, a pocket sectary

If he wants to see if a contact is on line or leave a message then that can be done in relatively short order. I would say twice as long as something would take on a computer today (because a phone is a bitch to type on)

If he wants to do a search then it will take 3d6 days, as it would for any matrix search using a tortoise.
As to accessing the Denver host threw the Seattle host, not without a lot of talking. As a security measure the shadow land hosts do not keep a san connecting them. You would need to negotiate with somebody on SL Seattle to give you access codes for SL Denver. This will be a time consuming and expensive procedure. Although if you just want to get a message to the shadow population of Denver you could probably get somebody to post the message on your behalf, this will of cause not have the benefit of your recognised name ads you are not a regular on that host.

Edward
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