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> NAN...Perhaps in need of a name change.
Penta
post May 9 2005, 09:33 PM
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This amuses me.

No wonder 'Native American Nations' feels so odd. It's, like, something nobody would ever use to describe themselves.
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Demonseed Elite
post May 9 2005, 09:38 PM
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Well, "Native American Nations" isn't unappropriate, it's just not a term they would all agree with. I know Native Americans (or American Indians!) who dislike the term "tribe", and only refer to it as their "nation."
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post May 9 2005, 09:40 PM
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I wouldn't go so far as to say, "nobody." But the problem does include the fact that there are a myriad set of terms to refer to American Indians depending on the context (like the article said, "Indian Country" is a legal term used in Federal Indian Law. Of course, so is the term, "Aboriginal Title"). First Nations is also used to describe the group as a whole.

QUOTE (Demonseed Elite)
Well, "Native American Nations" isn't unappropriate, it's just not a term they would all agree with.  I know Native Americans (or American Indians!) who dislike the term "tribe", and only refer to it as their "nation."

Well, that's because while not every group self-identifies as a "tribe" it is an Indian Law term of art to refer to any homogenous indigenous political groups generally as a "Tribe." There's a distinct difference between the Navajo Nation, Sandia Pueblo, and the Mescalero Apache Tribe, but the to the BIA they are all legally classified as "tribes."

QUOTE (25 USC §2511(4) or 25 USCS § 450b(e) or 42 USC §9601(36))
Indian tribe. The term "Indian tribe" means any Indian tribe, band, nation, or other organized group or community, including an Alaska Native Village Corporation or Regional Corporation (as defined in or established pursuant to the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act [43 USCS §§ 1601 et seq.]), which is recognized as eligible for the special programs and services provided by the United States to Indians because of their status as Indians.


It's also the definition used in the current (8th) edition of Black's Law Dictionary.
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Fygg Nuuton
post May 9 2005, 10:13 PM
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also note, that the UCAS may call it the NAN, whereas people that live their may call it something different.

"Espana? No, now you're Spain."
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post May 9 2005, 10:16 PM
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Yeah, the probably call themselves Ute, PCC, Sioux, AMC, Athabaska, SSC, Tsimshian, and TPA...

Actually, the Treaty of Denver refers to them as the Native American Nations (SoNA, 10). However, the original group was SAIM, which was based on the American Indian Movement of the 1970s.
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hahnsoo
post May 10 2005, 06:16 AM
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And the combined government body is called the STC (Sovereign Tribal Council). Oy.
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Edward
post May 10 2005, 06:25 AM
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Also recall it is the native American nations, plural, each of the sperate legal countries has a name for themselves, NAN is just a collective term for the group of countries. You don’t get a NAN ambassador or a NAN citizen so who is going to complain about the name.

Edward
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hahnsoo
post May 10 2005, 07:59 AM
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It sounds to me that NAN is a term that UCASers and CASers would use to describe them. Much like the US and Europse currently calls the cradle of civilization "the Middle East", but no one from the Middle East think of themselves as a collective. Or the moniker "Russian" referring to the former states of the USSR. In other words, it's cultural laziness... We Americans can't be bothered to actually remember the differences between other nations, right? :)
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post May 10 2005, 04:58 PM
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No more than how most Americans refer to themselves by their states, but foreigners don't. Of course, that's the problem with generalizations.

The "Nations" part implies the aggregate collection of the Indian nations, kind of like the Gathering of Nations.
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Crimson Jack
post May 12 2005, 04:53 AM
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I've never understood all the torque over a name classification. I'm not referred to as a Sicilian American. The classification of "white" works for me for what its designed to do. There are times this issue is slightly more than laughable.
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Solstice
post May 12 2005, 05:31 AM
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The entire concept is laughable but if they must be called something call them Indians. There is some evidence that they may not be a native as they would like us to believe.
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post May 12 2005, 07:42 AM
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Well, yeah. It's not like humans originated in this hemisphere.
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blakkie
post May 12 2005, 05:17 PM
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"First Nations" and "First Nations Peoples" is the common term used by the political elite (of all colours) in Canada. "Indians" is still a slang term used. Usually it is ment in a degrogator way, but not always. Similar in many was to the current use of "nigger".

Here "natives", shortened from "Native North Americans", is likely the most common used in everyday language.

Of all of them First Nations is like the best description of them. It appears that generally their ancestors emmigrated over a period of 25,000 years ago through perhaps 6,000 thousand years ago. So they aren't a lot more "native" than a 10th generation north american who's relatives came from Europe a few hundred years back. However they certainly constituted the first "nations" built here.

EDIT: And "indian" comes from a navigational misunderstanding.

P.S. I suspect that the elite of the "natives" prefer First Nations because of the mindset it envokes. That they are not Canadians, but a separate entity. This is much more true in Canada than the US given that the relatively large percentage of Canada's population with completely "native" ancestory. It's around 5%. In the US they constitute a much, much smaller slice.
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Solstice
post May 12 2005, 06:41 PM
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Naming any kind of people the "first" is just retarded. Reminds me of my local Indian tribe calls themselves "THE people" as if they are the only people on earth that matter. It's a double standard perpetrated by groups like the NAACP and ACLU. They should be called Indians or American Indians to deflect confusion over immigrants from the country of India.
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Kagetenshi
post May 12 2005, 07:04 PM
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How about "Relatively Native Americans"?

~J
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Little Bill
post May 12 2005, 07:19 PM
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QUOTE (Penta)
No wonder 'Native American Nations' feels so odd. It's, like, something nobody would ever use to describe themselves.

The problem with "Native American" is that in the technical sense applies to anyone born in America. So I'm a Native American, even though I'm not an American Indian.
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Critias
post May 12 2005, 07:39 PM
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I like "here before the pale guys Americans." I think it flows off the tongue well. The HBTPGA Nation stands tall and proud!
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post May 12 2005, 07:45 PM
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Sounds as good as any other suggestion.

That or the always popular, let them call themselves whatever the fuck they want.
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mfb
post May 12 2005, 11:48 PM
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i would be proud of my Let Them Call Themselves Whatever The Fuck They Want heritage.
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Fygg Nuuton
post May 13 2005, 12:51 AM
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as an american there are only mexicans, americans, canadians and "those people"

i'm going back to my swimming pool filled with 24k gold ferraris
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Crimson Jack
post May 13 2005, 03:03 AM
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This reminds me of a story my dad e-mailed to me a few months back. He was on a trip to Argentina. Someone asked him where he was from. He said, "America." To which they replied, "Yes, we're Americans too."
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Penta
post May 13 2005, 05:05 AM
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QUOTE (blakkie)
"First Nations" and "First Nations Peoples" is the common term used by the political elite (of all colours) in Canada. "Indians" is still a slang term used. Usually it is ment in a degrogator way, but not always. Similar in many was to the current use of "nigger".

So you'd die within a few minutes (or at least go through the most uncomfortable period of your life) if you call someone an Indian in Canada?

Is it actually as insta-death, socially or physically?
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Solstice
post May 13 2005, 05:20 AM
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Yeah I do take issue with that also. Maybe Canada is so far to the left that they have actually convinced some people that "Indian" is a derogatory term on par with "nigger". I hardly believe that however. It's still used widely here. Slurs associated with Indians in this part of the world are much more offensive (and creative).
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Charon
post May 13 2005, 05:57 AM
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QUOTE (Solstice)
Yeah I do take issue with that also.

You take issue? On what ground?!

That being said, I can't talk for the english speaking canadien, but in Québec, 'Indien' is no more derogative than italian. It's just what they are.
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post May 13 2005, 07:11 AM
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QUOTE (mfb)
i would be proud of my Let Them Call Themselves Whatever The Fuck They Want heritage.

You'll always be my Anglo boy.
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