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[cerberus]

I loved that implant in SR2, such a dramatic and character defining piece of cyberware. In sr3 it was totally neutered, maybe a compromise is in order?

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

Gee, thanks for the suggestions.

May I suggest... this (extending TacComp rules to Rigging and Decking)?

Maybe this, too (make it a Hacker prog).

And, actually, it wasn't neutered. It was actually made better, specifically through the Suprise Test bonus and the fact that you don't have to roll against shotgun range TNs for every target to get the CP boost for that target. Plus the SUT bonus now gives you additional Init (like the TC did) or CP (which can be rocketed into LEO).

[Mongoose]

Not to mention, combat pool dice in SR3 refresh only once per turn, not once per character action, effectively giving faster characters smaller pools. That makes ANY source of extra combat pool dice a pretty swank item in SR3, even if it grants less dice than it did in SR2.
Really what I'd hope to see in SR4 is a TC that has fast, simple rules, making it an honestly playable item. It shouldn't give up its cool / rare factor, but it also shouldn't be the sort of thing people avoid using just because the rules are too complex.

[Critias]

There's nothing inherently neutered about getting 4 extra combat pool, 100% of your combat pool available for surprise tests, and +4 dice to small unit tactics checks (for, y'know, more combat pool). Yes, it's expensive as hell (in both nuyen and essence) -- but if you know how to use the things it gives you (IE, you use CP right), it's far from "totally neutered."

[Taki]

still the wireless thing and enhanced reallity ... It should make the tactical computer more common.

[Critias]

Why?

What's a Tactical Computer even supposed to do in SR4, with combat pool confirmed as gone, suprise tests not yet mentioned, small unit tactics not yet mentioned, the initiative system not yet mentioned...?

We don't know if Tac Comps will exist, and we have no idea at this point what they'd do if they did, given what we know about SR4 thus far.

[Grimtooth]

Besides with the new commlink/PAN, how would you like some kid hacking you combat computer and overlaying it with the terrain from NINJA DEATH RACE MCMXLIV? :eek:

[Link]

I don't know about SR4 but we still use both versions. Call the Shadowtech model a targeting computer if you want. They're different enough to co-exist.

[Grimtooth]

Personally I like the one from shadowtech best.

[cerberus]

I just enjoy the difference between enhanced reflexes and the tactical computer. All the reflex implants improve a characters ability to move and react faster. The tactical computer on the other hand predicts the movements of the opponents. I just find that really cool. Sorta like how wintermute always was predicting the decisions and actions of case and molly.

[Mortax]

So all the guys in Equilibrium had a 2nd edition tac computer? :-)

[Eldritch]

I've always thought of the warehouse scene in Robocop when I think of the Tac comuter. He walks in and glances around, is computer marking and tracking each potential threat. The when the shooting started, he pointed his gun where they should be and fired. Cleared the place out IIRC.


I Liked the second edition one better than third also.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

I can't see why unless you used SR3 rules for SUT with the SR1/2 TacComp.

Essence-wise, you'd need 22 dedicated or 11 generic ports to equal the essence cost of a Rating 2 TacComp in Shadowtech. But the SR3 TacComp has a couple of really cool bonuses--first of all, you get to use up to 100% of your CP for Surprise Tests. I mean, really, that is a big deal. A sam with a Rating 4 TacComp could toss a number of dice that would be in the low to mid teens in addition to their Reaction. It'd almost pay for itself to be constantly surprised so that when you win, your opponents can't use their CP.

Second, you don't have to roll against unmodified Shotgun range TNs for each target to get a CP bonus for that individual of 1/2 successes. The CP boost is automatic. Finally, under SR3 the SUT bonus lets you also get the Initiative boost or more CP. The best thing the SR1/2 TacComp has going for it is that the SR3 TacComp's Initiative bonus isn't automatic. Nah... You only get an automatic CP boost.

But it's on top of the bonus you get by rolling SUT (and that Rating limit doesn't exist so you can hook up n senses to have an effective Rating n/2 TacComp and SUT bonus of n/2 on top of your PC's SUT skill (your TacComp-equipped PC does have SUT, doesn't he?)), which is the same test you'd be making with the SR1/2 TacComp, only your base TN is 4 and not 4/5/7/9 like it used to be. Oh, yeah. And if you're using the SUT bonus for yourself then you can also roll SUT every time you're up to get up to n/2 more CP and it's not even a Free Action. So in a way, you do the same CP bonus for each target as you would in SR1/2.

The SR3 TacComp kicks the SR1/2's ass so much it's not even funny. And no, I've never spent hours thinking about how badass the TacComp is and playing with the rules. No, siree.

Like I wrote in that first long post I linked to, the best thing they could do to improve the Tactical Computer in SR4 would be to excise this grossly unnecessary and gratuitous sentence that says, "Tactical Computer bonuses do not affect rigging and decking." That's just crazy-speak. Tactical Computers are made for rigging, and if they didn't work for decking then why is there a SUT (Matrix) specialization and a BattleTac Matrixlink that allows you to get the same SUT bonuses? There is no good reason for the Tactical Computer to not work for rigging or decking.

[Critias]

Well, what they're going to have to do first in order to improve the TacComp for SR4 is figure out what the hell it's going to do, since Combat Pool no longer exists. Ditto for the Combat Sense spell and the Adept Power (I think of the same name).

Is the TacComp (and magical family) going to suddenly become the only way to get a CP? Is it going to just provide extra dice to every combat test (so it's still a bonus, but one you get no control over)? Is it going to just be a boost to your Edge stat (but one you then go on to describe as tactical acumen rather than luck/experience)? Is it going to exist?

Questions, questions, questions.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

Oh, geez. I hadn't even gotten to that. I'm still focused on why the TacComp is such a great piece of gear right now (and for my forseeable future). But we're talking about my favorite cyber and magics: The ones that boost CP.

Best advice: Auto successes or extra dice for all ranged and melee tests like it sort of does now.

Screwing around with Edge at all sounds like a bad idea all around since it's replacing Karma Pool.

Hell, the SUT skill will have to change as well since the bonus it gives now to CP will be directly useless, and +1 dice/2 successes may be a big boost depending on the spread of your average Dice Pool, and God knows we can't have something give too much of a boost.

[Critias]

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

[Wireknight]

I believe that the change in utility and monetary/Essence cost for a tactical computer, between SR1/SR2 and SR3 was a very good design decision. The previous tactical computer targetted opponents individually, which was goddamned cumbersome given that it wasn't even likely that the character in question would be acting against some of the in-range targets we had to roll to mark. That was annoying. The previous tactical computer was also just plain unbalancing in play.

I had characters with significant reaction scores, initiative dice, and senseware who, once they scored even a rating 1 tactical computer, suddenly rolled four or five more dice against any target, automatically acted at the highest possible initiative they could produce. It was so unanticipatedly powerful that I regretted allowing the characters access to it. That was another part of why it was broken: it was all or nothing. There was no way to have it and not be a terrible monster, not unless you purposefully chose poorly complementary cyberware.

There was little point in paying a lot more Essence or entering realms of availability so high they were never printed, when the difference between a rating 1 TC and a rating 4 almost disappeared with a full complement of cybersensory augmentations was in place. One guy even, taking a cue from the cyber-logistician in Cybertechnology, got a laser targetting designator linked to his TC, to reduce the TN# for the shotgun-range marking tests by 1. Hoo-boy, was that hideous and abominable.

Now in steps the SR3 tactical computer. It behaves identically to the Combat Sense adept power and magical spell, costs a hell of a lot less, is a hell of a lot easier to get, and scales in power in a controlled fashion. It provides bonuses to certain tactical rolls that, with pretty simple-to-incorporate advanced rules, give the character another more flexible source of benefit from the implant. It works like a similar-in-intent magical system, doesn't bog down combat with tons of potentially unnecessary rolls, and, while providing an edge, doesn't make the character suddenly almost unstoppably lethal compared to those who lack the augmentation.

Considering the rules for using tactical skill, and a tactical computer linked via radio or Battletac, to boost the overall performance of a small group of operatives, and other such cool features that don't turn your character into a blindingly fast and ultra-efficient combat god in one fell swoop, and you have something that's more balanced in its essence-cost-to-performance ratio, still worth getting, and not demanding of lame and cliched "CLASSIFIED" costs and availabilities beyond a certain threshold.

[Wounded Ronin]

You know, this whole problem could be solved with the following text inserted into SR4:

[Typhon]

Tactical Computer "Shoot the one on the left first Michael"

[mfb]

boston accent +50,000 nuyen.